Cheap guy with replacement coil question

[Sidecar Bob]

After all those years like that I realized last year that on my "hybrid" (read: frankenbike) Gl1100/GL1000 machine the ballast resistor is not bypassed during starting. Since I am now running a Dyna S ignition the simple fix would be to switch to Dyna DC1-1 coils (the green ones) and remove the resistor.

But when I saw the prices I almost fell off my chair: The cheapest ones I could find would cost me $170 (incl. shipping). That sounds like an awful lot to solve a problem that really isn't such a big issue.

So are there any cheaper options for new coils that wouldn't require a resistor?

[Toehead]

I run the GL1500 coils with very good success. They are extremely cheap on ebay, are 3.0 ohm primary, and have removable/replaceable plug wires.

[ericheath]

Same here. Other mid 80 Honda coils will also work.

[Sidecar Bob]

I'm running the original coils from the '83 GL1100 now, but I thought their primary resistance was too low to use without the resistor. I'll have to get at them with an ohmmeter and see.

[ericheath]

They're lower than the recommended 3 ohms.

[Sidecar Bob]

That's what I thought. I found some new "GL1500 coils" but it said they were for a bunch of other models too, including the GL1100 so I don't trust them to be 3+ ohms. I did find a good deal on some used ones that I might buy if nobody has a better suggestion for something new.

[ericheath]

You can buy brand new Dodge Neon coils for $20. That's what I paid. Bert put some on a 75 a few years back. IIRC, he had heat issues through his starter button. The Neon's are 0.6 ohm, so you would need 2.5 ohm resistors, which can be done piggy-backing two resistors. I have been going to try this for awhile now. I have the parts, just cannot find a round tuit.
If this works, it's pretty cheap. It should give a heck of a jolt for starting. Creative wiring could be made so it bypassed only one resistor for starting.

[Whiskerfish]

I don't know about 1100 coil resistance but I tested a bunch (like 7) of stock 1000 coils and found all to be in the 1.8-2.2 ohm range

[Sidecar Bob]

OK, Lets start with what I have and why I want to change it. Mr.H is an '83 GL1100 with a '79 GL1000 engine. I remember measuring the resistances of the 1000 and 1100 coils when I put it together in '95 and that they were the same but I don't remember what the measurements were. Your numbers sound reasonable and would indicate that a resistor is needed.

I knew back then that when you pushed the 100's Start button the resistor was shorted via a diode so I assumed that the 1100 did the same thing. It started well so I never looked at that part of the schematic. A couple of years ago, while trying to figure out why I was having problems with the Dyna S ignition (turned out to be defective - replaced under warranty) I noticed that the 1100's wiring did not short the resistor and it has bothered me since.

I could add a diode and a couple of wires and make it work the same way as the 1000 but the coils (which seem to still work well) are 33 years old and I read here that you don't need the resistor if you use Dyna coils, which takes us to the first post of this thread: I am cheap and can't make myself spend $170 to fix a problem that hasn't really caused any harm.

Using automotive coils sounds interesting except that those ones would still need a resistor so that wouldn't solve my problem. Besides, if by "piggyback" you mean connect the resistors in parallel to provide a lower resistance, I cannot see any way to "bypass" just one except to disconnect it, which would leave a higher resistance when you need a lower one.

[roncar]

As I understand it,

1. Bypassing the ballast resistor (on the GL1000's) was to make for easier starts.

2. Whether or not you need a ballast resister depends for a very large part on the coil being used.

3. You have not had a starting issue with your current setup that can be attributed to no bypass for the past ~11 years.

4. As manufacturing technology changed, Honda did away with bypassing the ballast resistor (if not the resistor itself.)

IMHO, If it ain't broke, don't fix it, ride it!

[Toehead]

There seems to be two versions of the 1100 coils: Those with the resistor external to the coils, like the 1000, and those with the resistor internal to the ignitors.

I have a thread summarizing this, which I will find and link.

Edit:

http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 0&start=90

That thread (page 6 and 7) should shed light on all the GL1100 coils variants. The earlier pages document the GL1500 coil swap of myself and lucien harpess.

[robin1731]

You could go with some used Dyna coils. On ebay all the time. There isn't a whole lot that can go wrong with them.

.

[TheBirdman]

Fancy seeing you here, Bob

[Sidecar Bob]

As I understand it,

1. Bypassing the ballast resistor (on the GL1000's) was to make for easier starts.

Sort of. The theory is that the starter motor is cranking the system voltage can drop as low as 8 or 9 volts, which wouldn't produce a fat enough spark for starting in a 12V coil so instead they use 6V coils. But if you were to leave 6V coils connected to a 12V system they wouldn't last very long so they put the resistor in as a series voltage drop. To make it all work the Start button bypasses the resistor during starting, at least on the 1000s....

2. Whether or not you need a ballast resister depends for a very large part on the coil being used.

3. You have not had a starting issue with your current setup that can be attributed to no bypass for the past ~11 years.

4. As manufacturing technology changed, Honda did away with bypassing the ballast resistor (if not the resistor itself.)

IMHO, If it ain't broke, don't fix it, ride it!

2. The requirement for a resistor depends on the ignition system (points, Dyna, GL1100 TI &c) AND the coil's primary winding resistance.

3. Actually, its 21 years. But it has always needed to crank a little longer than whatever other bike I had at the time (e.g. the 650 seems to be running as soon as my thumb brushes the button in warm weather but the 'Wing has to crank for at least a second or 2. I always just thought it was the nature of the beast but it needs to crank a little more since I converted to the Dyna S and when I realized that the resistor isn't shorted I started thinking that that might be why.

4) Yeah. But I really am not clear about why. Cars of that era often had ballast resistors too and some of them were so notoriously unreliable that a lot of people carried a spare. I think that the discontinuance of resistor use had something to do with changing to electronic ignition. Maybe. I really don't know a lot about cars....

[Sidecar Bob]

You could go with some used Dyna coils. On ebay all the time. There isn't a whole lot that can go wrong with them.

The cheapest used one on eBay right now appears to have one of the "towers" where the wires connect broken. And even that one is twice as much as what some of the sets of 3 GL1500 coils appear to be going for...

There seems to be two versions of the 1100 coils: Those with the resistor external to the coils, like the 1000, and those with the resistor internal to the ignitors.

I have a thread summarizing this, which I will find and link.

Edit:

http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 0&start=90

That thread (page 6 and 7) should shed light on all the GL1100 coils variants. The earlier pages document the GL1500 coil swap of myself and lucien harpess.

OK, so from what I read you are saying that the 1500 coils are an upgrade from the 1100 and don't need a resistor to protect the Dyna or the coils.

I have just put in a bid on a set of GL1500 coils from within Canada (= no customs hassles and cheaper postage). I am hoping that, since there were no bids with less than 2 hours to go, I will come home tonight and find an email telling me that they are on the way.

BTW: 2 more days of work and I will be retired so I will be able to know right away if I win something