Whine, Click, Engine stuck... Well, this is different

[Sidecar Bob]

I had an appointment this morning so I put my gear on, fired up the 'Wing and headed out into light rain. About halfway to the corner I heard a sort of whining sound but I figured it was road dirt between a caliper & disc or something. As I slowed for the stop sign at the corner something went CLICK!! and the engine stopped. I figured I had stalled it by taking the choke off to soon so I pulled in the clutch lever and hit the Start button. The solenoid clicked and the voltage dropped (= power getting to the starter motor) but the engine didn't turn. It rolled easily in neutral so a neighbour helped me push it back up the hill and into the garage.

I let it dry off a bit and then tried again (same result) so pulled the plugs (wet but no fuel or coolant smell so probably just from it breathing damp air while not running long enough to warm up)(confirmed: after sitting out of the engine for an hour they were dry). The oil looks & smells OK and is at the same level as the last time I checked and the coolant in the recovery tank is where it was last week too.

Since the kickstart linkage blocks access to the cap over the bolt for turning it manually I put the kicker in and heaved on it but it would not budge. I started to type this up so I could ask for suggestions but it occurred to me that I should try turning the engine backwards first so I grabbed a wrench to unscrew the cap and see if I could get it out past the linkage.
Hmmm.... I was sure that cap took a 17mm wrench like the one on the 1100 engine I'm working on but that looks more like 12mm. I grabbed the 12 and tried but it wouldn't turn. Now, I know that I was the last person to have that cap out so I'm positive that it wasn't overtightened so I grabbed a flashlight, looked closer and I saw this

What went CLICK!!! 1.JPG

That doesn't look right, does it? So I started fiddling around in there and this fell off

What went CLICK!!! 3.JPG

Then I realized what had happened so I went for a walk and found this still sitting on the road where the engine stopped

What went CLICK!!! 2.JPG

Somehow the bolt that attaches the flywheel (& that you use for manually turning the engine) had managed to back out. The whine I heard must have been its head rubbing the inside of the cap and the click was when it came through the cap.

So I removed the kickstart linkage so that I could get a socket onto the bolt but it will not move in either direction so I suspect that when the bolt loosened the flywheel moved and the starter clutch rollers slipped past the boss on the starter sprocket, which means that screwing it back in will be an engine out job. Since I am close to having the new engine ready to paint and I don't need to drive every day I think I'll wait until after I install the new one to do anything else with this one.

[CYBORG]

WOW ! Seems like your luck is a bit on the bad side as of late

[scootsx2]

That's a failure mode I haven't seen before

[ericheath]

I remember one person who felt that bolt didn’t really do anything, so he left it out. He felt the circlip was enough to keep things in place.

[Sidecar Bob]

Circlip? I put the flywheel back on my 1100 engine last week and I don't remember any circlip!

I have been thinking about this bolt. I have owned this engine for about 25 years and it has been in this bike for almost 22 years. In all that time I have only had the rear cover off once and that was 12 years ago and I can't remember for sure but I don't think I removed the flywheel then. It is possible that that bolt hasn't been disturbed since it was done up at the factory in '79. The only way I can think of for it to have come loose is if I inadvertently loosened it when turning the engine with it but I wouldn't imagine I could apply anywhere near enough torque to loosen it while the engine was turning freely. Besides, the last time I turned the engine by the bolt was quite a while ago and it has been driven thousands of KM since then.

I wonder what could have made it back out like that now?

As for luck, yeah, between Eccles dying and this it hasn't been the best year for bike engines around here so far. But it could have been a lot worse. At least I wasn't too far from home when this happened and I do have the new engine almost ready to install. And being retired I don't absolutely need to have something that I can drive to work every day.

[rcmatt007]

wow!

[ericheath]

This is from a 1200, but I thought they were similar. What you’re referring to as the flywheel is actually the rotor with the magnets, correct? It is torqued down with a nut. The bolt that backed out goes into a threaded hole in the shaft. He left it out. I remember there being conjecture about whether it was for oiling purposes, deflecting it up on the stator coils. I don’t think anyone answered the question, but I may have forgotten.

Never heard how it worked out long term. In any case, if you got the bolt out and the broken cover piece, what could cause it to lock up?? It could be a separate issue from the broken cover and bolt. I guess we won’t know until it’s torn down.

[Sidecar Bob]

You had me worried there. This is what the GL1000/1100 alternator looks like. The blue bolt is the one that backed out. It screws into the end of the alternator shaft (object with splines shown above the bolt).

flywheel bolt (alternator).gif

I did't get the bolt out yet. The threaded part of the cap is still in the opening so the hole isn't big enough for the bolt to come out. I figure that the bolt is jammed against the inside of the hole solidly enough that the engine can't turn and the only way to get it free will be to remove the rear cover and release the pressure. I'll try to see if I can get the rest of the cap out without damaging anything this afternoon but I don't expect success because if there's enough pressure to stop the engine there's probably enough to keep the rest of the cap from turning out too. We probably will have to wait until I take it apart to know the whole story.

[RB]

Others have had that bolt back out..after using it to turn the engine over but they loosen it by turning it counter clockwise a no no..

You might try turning the bolt back in it may still be in the threads and you migth be able to tighten it back up/get it off the cap; the issue is if the stress on it from hitting the cover is holding it cockeyed??? Hard to work in there but a looong chisel and light taping might get the part/threads left in there moving so you could get the rest of that cap off??? and then re-tighten the bolt..

[ericheath]

You could get at it with the tank out, but that’s almost as bad as pulling motor, and not guaranteed to not have to still pull the motor. I had it happen once and was able to tighten it back up. I caught it in time.

It looks like 1000/1100’s the boot does hold the rotor in place??? If so, your rotor may have backed into the stator assembly. You could lever the bolt forward to see if it moves. It’s just in a spot that isn’t very easy to get to.

[rcmatt007]

probably best to pull the motor as you may need to take the whole back cover off

[Sidecar Bob]

Yeah, this is definitely an engine out proposition. There's no way to get the rest of the cap to move, let alone screw out. The bolt is jammed solidly so it will NOT turn in either direction. I even tried putting the bike in high gear and humping it backwards to see if it would turn the engine backwards and release it but nothing happened. There is no give at all so a lever wouldn't help.

I might be inclined to try other things like maybe loosening all the rear cover bolts Not easy with the engine in the frame but it looks barely possible) but between being retired (= not having to drive every day) and having the replacement engine so close to ready I'm more inclined to put the time into working on that and deal with this one when I have it out anyway.

[Sidecar Bob]

OK, so I got this engine ('79) out and decided I wanted to relieve the pressure on the rear cover before I went back to working on the new ('82) engine. It turns out that not only is the cap broken but the the threads in the rear cover, the threads on the bolt and the threads inside the flywheel shaft are messed up. OK, not a huge deal - I have a '77 parts engine so I'll just swap in parts from it and still have a complete running engine.

The alternator shaft assembly from the '77 engine came out easily but I can't get the one out of the '79 engine. I have all 6 bolts out and I can move the plate around; It sort of pivots a degree or so on the dowel pin and I can see space between the plate and the block when I pull on it but it feels like something inside the block is stopping the gear from coming out.

What am I doing wrong?

[Sidecar Bob]

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