Starter, Solenoid, Slowly Dying Bike

[NotSoLilCrippseys]

Kev. Thanks. ($40 for a rebuild sounds very reasonable, and I have one that needs a build.) From what I looked at, I'm fairly certain it's not the main ground connection. I can check again and clean more extensively.

Armed with the nifty ground-down 10mm to hold the thin nut still while removing the power wire nut, I removed my dead starter and swapped in the new-to-me unit. (I'm not sure she's all that healthy. She sounded fine on the bench. Installed, there's more whine than there should be. But that's a bridge to burn when I get there.)

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After installing my new-to-me starter, she turned right over. No boom, just crank. I sprayed in some ether and she came to life - then ran on choke, then off choke. I checked voltage at the battery: 14.5. She seemed fine.

Knowing I needed fuel, I decided to make a gas run to my favorite station, roughly 8 miles round trip. Ride out was mostly fine. It was cold, she wasn't fully warmed up, and there was a little sluggishness indicative of possible sticking slides that freed up with a whoosh.

Then, as I approached the pumps, sputter and stall. What the...

I topped off the gas and spent the next 5+ minutes going through that cycle of cranking but no starting. Rest. Try again. I pulled the choke again, and she came to life. OK. I took the loop around the pumps and headed back home.

Within a couple miles, she was misbehaving badly. I knew I wasn't going to make it home and pulled into a business lot with a decent "hill" in it. (Loading a 600-pound bike into the bed of a truck solo requires gravity assist and a running start.) I did the unthinkable and called the missus to come get me, then I had to go get Ginger. Not good.

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Back at home, I just didn't have time to tinker any longer. I should have known changing the starter would not magically solve the issue.

[redglbx]

NotSo, sorry to hear of your troubles, you’ll get there on that good looking GL. Patience !

[1983lux]

That sudden loss of power sounds exactly like what happened when my battery cable got loose one time on top of the battery. Also had similar issues with starter when the cable going from solenoid to starter post had some chafing on it. Any weakness in either battery cable could cause similar issues when it gets ever so slightly moved. Easy to get some 6 gauge wire and terminal connectors and make new ones. Mine were ok looking on the outside but all green with corrosion in the inside. Water found its way under the sheathing over the years. Rebuilding/cleaning up the starter is not too tough and there’s good tutorials on here. Worth rebuilding even as a backup if you already bought a new one.

[1983lux]

Also, I’d be checking issues with fuel supply for the stalling out. Gas cap not venting properly? Fuel pump failure? Rust chunks plugging up gas tank intake? Carbs plugged up with gummy fuel or rust bits? Petcock issue? All possibilities if not an electrical problem.

[NotSoLilCrippseys]

OK. I'm pushing this thread back up, as I'm still banging my head against the wall - months later.

This is about my 5th Saturday or Sunday "trying" to sort the issue. I'm now back from a test ride, with the bike sitting a mile from home on the side of the road. (She'll possibly start and come home on her own power once she cools off. Or I'll bring her home on the pickup later today.)

Bike runs fine in the driveway, even up to warm. Firing at all 4 cylinders. Fuel cap venting isn't an issue (kept her loose for testing).

Some miles out (4-5 today; 10-15 last Sunday), she starts to lose all kinds of power then dies. I think I'm going to 3, then 2 cylinders. Last Sunday, I got right near the driveway before she died. I spent most of the ride thinking I solved the mystery - somehow, mysteriously.

I didn't bring tools/diagnostics for field testing on the side of the road, so I have limited info right now.

What I noticed this go round:

• Left exhaust headers were notably cooler than right headers (2&4 not firing, or not firing consistently when hot). Weird, if it's a coil issue, what with wasted spark and 1/2 and 3/4 off the same coil.

• Strange "starter" issue (intermittent) noticed today on a couple start attempts. The bike died on me. OK. Then the start button didn't kick the starter. I had nothing. I put her in gear, bump start try, then start button works.

• When she first died, I was able to get her to start with choke on. It was really rough.

I'm pretty sure it's electrical at this point. To answer some of the basics:

• Fuel tank has been cleaned/derusted, and fuel is pretty fresh (with Seafoam as well).

• I run 2 filters, mainly because I had issues once after running the bike way down into reserve. I thought those were fuel/carb issues, and I swapped in some known good GL1100 carbs until I rebuilt the original GL1000s. (Those carbs are Randakk's kit rebuilt now, but are not on the bike yet. I ran that set up into December/January until the bike started to really act up. And perhaps there's some association between the acting up and a starter swap in Feb

• I tested the fuel pump last weekend or the weekend before. Good flow consistent with the flow on another GL I have. I can see the flow through a filter attached between pump and carb.

• I confirmed firing on all 4 BEFORE setting out on my test ride - and right after cold start.

Now.
I did SWAP out a failed starter motor in/around February. Maybe something electrical went awry with that swap.

While my main fuse is a blade replacement and the connections seem tight, maybe I need to pull the battery, get into the wiring there, and drill in.

I'm wondering about the Dyna set up as well. Do they "fail" on one side?

Meantime...
I guess I'll pull the battery and a load of the electrical connections again. I'd like to have the bike running consistently again before I put on the rebuilt carb rack, mainly because I know I'll need to synch the carbs on the bike.

But maybe I'll bolt on the rack as well - if the electrical interventions don't yield results.

[Sidecar Bob]

As with points, each "side" of the Dyna ignition controls one coil so if either side was acting up it would cause a front pair of cylinders or rear pair issue rather than left pair or right pair.

Left side only not heating indicates a fuel problem rather than electrical. That could be as simple as the left/right balance adjustment being set wrong.
I'm stretching here but it seems like it could be a fuel flow issue too.

Silly question: How are your 2 filters connected?

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It still sounds like you may have 2 different problems going on here. The starter motor problem could be dirty contacts in the START button or the clutch switch a bad connection in the START button circuit.
It could also be dirty or burned contacts in the solenoid or a loose battery cable or starter motor cable or a dirty connection at the end of one of those cables.

[redglbx]

Notso, have you pulled and cleaned the carbs ? All this kinda sounds like a dirty/plugged carb problem, might be worth a look paying particular attention to the idle circuit. Still a good looking gl, you’ll get there !

[NotSoLilCrippseys]

And 3 weeks later, I find that I've overlooked a very simple issue:

With my second fuel filter, it appears that the fuel line from pump to carbs was too long, and I introduced an extreme bend/kink. Idling in the driveway, no problem with fuel. Out on the road at 3-4.5k, the carbs dehydrate and cannot deliver the needed go juice to the cylinders.

I went out to the bike to pull the coils and swap in replacements, having worked back to that point and thinking that maybe hot coils were failing - even though I think I felt cooler pipes on 2 & 4 at last fail and know that one coil fires 1-2 and the other fires 3-4.

What a bonehead. I can't believe how many times I had my nose down near that area. I could see fuel running through the filter and left it at that. Fuel, but not enough of it.

I pulled out the second filter late last week, but it took me until today to be confident enough in the running to do the morning commute to the office. I've already trailered her home three times and coasted into the driveway two other times. (I ran a 12-mile loop on Sunday afternoon as my test.) Aside from carb tweaking, which I can tell she needs now that she's on the road, I had none of the issues that vexed for so long.

I suppose the bright spot is that my search for the cause led me to a full Randakk's kit rebuild on the GL1000 rack, including a split plenum.

I was sure it was fuel at first. Then I decided it couldn't be and turned my attention to electical/ignition. What a loop-the-loop.

[redglbx]

Great news ! One other thing to add to the library here is that because Honda runs everything through the start button those contacts tend to fail and cause problems. I have found that if the start button has an issue usually the first sign is no headlight because it’s usually the biggest load, particularly if you run a higher output headlight it just kills the start button. I put mine and several other things on relays to take the load off of it. Having full battery power to the headlight really improves its output as well.

Probably not your issue but something to keep in mind. Also if you added the 1100 carbs w/o thoroughly cleaning them before installing them that is just a form of Russian roulette and a bad idea. You just can’t clean the carbs enough particularly the idle circuit.

It sounds like you’re on the good side of things though so ride the heck out of it and enjoy it !

[leonardhcross]

BTW....Much of Maine is north of much of Ontario.

[Rat]

And … some of California is north of some of Ontario …

Gord

[Sidecar Bob]

Honda doesn't run everything through the start button. They just (cleverly) use a 2nd set of contacts in it to turn the headlight off while the stater motor needs all the power the battery can supply.
The problem is that they didn't expect the bikes to last long enough for dirty contacts to be a common issue so none of the manuals mention spraying contact cleaner into the holes in the switch housings from time to time.

[redglbx]

Bob, On my 76 I replaced the terrible oe headlight with one from J.C. Whitney at the time. Laser cut glass lense gave it a very focus’d European type pattern with a halogen bulb rated at 110/130watts. This was supposed to be an off road only part but I found the pattern to be focus’d enough to run it on the street with minimal on coming flash backs, it worked very well. But it ate the start button’s regularly. I replaced 4 or 5 but on the last one I did the headlight on relays using straight battery voltage which improved the headlight Brightness even more. That has been about 35yrs ago but I’m not 100% sure of the age.

As I remember at that time when I was trying to figure out why I kept killing the switch’s most everything went through that button. I know Honda redesigned that switch at some point to help carry the load, in 78 I believe. The first sign of the switch failing was usually the headlight not coming on but if you pulled on the button the h-light might come on but usually wouldn’t last.

I did take most of them apart and clean the contacts with contact cleaner but it usually wouldn’t last very long. I got a small improvement with cleaning the contacts with a fine abrasive, but that to only gave a short additional life.

[Sidecar Bob]

If everything went through that button nothing would work when the contacts burned (or got dirty).
Look at the wiring drawing again. The only circuits the Start button controls are the headlight and the starter solenoid.

[redglbx]

Bob,,,


Notsolil, bike of the month ?