Ricks Motorsport Starter - GL1000

[RSTman]

Hi guy's.
Two questions:
Does anyone have experience installing the Ricks starter motor on a GL1000? I noticed they come with a new chain sprocket. I'm wondering if the splined shaft on the Ricks motor gearbox is the same as stock, I really don't want to find it doesn't fit the original sprocket, I've had the motor out of the bike too many times already!
What's wrong with my stock starter motor?
My stock motor I think is finished, it has a recon sticker on it dated sometime in the 90's. I have cleaned it and fitted new brushes last year and it worked well for a while but stopped working a few days ago. Battery is good and to make sure the motor was jump lead tested from another battery with the same result. Not to be defeated I stripped it fully, tested it electrically. Found a worn bush in the gearbox, made a new one, fitted a new bearing, skimmed the commutator on my lathe and deepened the grooves, checked and made sure the brush plate earthed correctly with the cover. Motor will turn the engine with spark plugs out, but stalls out with them in. A bit reluctant to spend out on a new motor since I can't categorically say what's wrong with the original. Any ideas?

Thanks

Jerry

[Sidecar Bob]

Before you go any further try turning the engine with a wrench to make sure the problem really is the starter motor.

I have removed and reinstalled the sprocket with the engine in the bike many times (turned out a carb issue was killing the starter motors). It is very easy.
Any difference in a number of factors (such as the pitch angle of the splines) will prevent the original sprocket from fitting so most aftermarket starter motors come with new sprockets to make sure it fits & works right.

[RSTman]

Thanks for the reply. Is it possible to get the sprocket out through the starter mounting hole in the case then?
Everything points to the starter, the engine turns over fine on the kick start. Starts and runs fine. Bumped it down a slope the other day and it started easily and ran normally (well). It took me two sets of carbs and multiple builds to get them right, I'm pretty confident I don't have an issue with them but you can never know for sure I guess!

Jerry

[Sidecar Bob]

Yeah, that does sound like the starter motor.

Once the starter motor is out the only thing holding the sprocket in the hole is its teeth engaging with the chain Just lift it up a bit and it should come right out.

[RSTman]

Thanks for the info. I assumed there wasn't enough room to get the sprocket out so have never tried.
Time to spend out I guess, again!

Jerry

[RSTman]

Update on the Ricks Motorsport starter;

Got the sprocket off the starter chain and through the hole in the casing without issue, many thanks to Bob.

Managed to get a new Ricks starter, not that commonly available here in the UK. Note that the same starter is sold for the GL1100 and some sellers do not list it as for a GL1000, but it is the same one. I can confirm it came with a new sprocket and the original would not fit the splines on the new motor. It also comes with a new power cable since the terminal is at the other end of the casing on the Ricks motor. I assume this is because it uses permanent magnets.

I dropped the exhaust and removed the manifold stud next to the starter from the head for access. Since it's hard to drop the exhaust unless the bike is on the centre stand it means the starter chain and sprocket swings slightly out of line with the motor shaft. I used a magnet next to the casing to pull it in-line and it worked a treat, a small magnetic parts bowl worked just fine.

All bolted up and no go! Turns out my less than 3 year old Motobatt AGM battery was toast. I had some charging issues a while ago and assume this has damaged it. So a new battery and the starter spins the engine effortlessly and the bike starts easily.

I still think the Ricks motor was a good buy, the original motor was tired. I am also in no doubt that the Ricks motor is a superior design and a well worthwhile upgrade in any event.

Jerry

[redglbx]

That Bob! He’s such a smart guy and we’re lucky to have him !

Myself, on anything like this I usually take the battery out and take it to a local parts store and have it run on their “smart” tester to verify that it’s good. This story has been repeated many times so whether it’s a design issue or just the batteries are weak for this bike I don’t know but I’m sure that you’d rather just replace the battery than have to pull the starte even though Ricks does supply good parts for our use. Enjoy that bike !

[Shadowjack]

The old dilemma: shall I change what's easiest, cheapest, or most likely part first?

[redglbx]

Rstman, how’s about some pictures ?

[Sidecar Bob]

The old dilemma: shall I change what's easiest, cheapest, or most likely part first?

If you do any of the above you are likely to waste money on parts that you don't need. The first step should always be to determine what the issue actually is.

The problem is that we tend to decide what we think the problem is without properly diagnosing it.
I'm no exception to that; A few years ago I took my 'Wing out of storage and it wouldn't start. The starter motor was turning the engine but not fast enough to start. That sure sounded & felt like a dead battery to me so I messed around charging that battery & every other battery I had and trying them all for several days with no luck before I eventually decided it couldn't be the battery. It turned easily with a wrench so it had to be the starter motor and I had another one on hand so an hour later it was running.
I have a battery load tester. If I had used it in the first place instead of assuming the problem had to be the battery I could have been replacing the starter motor while the battery re-charged after the test.

[RSTman]

Yep, you never stop learning!
I had another newish battery for my Suzuki RE5 (it's a big one), it starts the RE5 with no effort, and believe me the RE5 is hard to turn over! I jumped it straight to the GL starter and got the same no turn as the GL Motobatt so assumed the starter was the culprit. Later I noticed the Motobatt wasn't holding 12V after an hour or two, so it's defo bad. The original starter may still be bad too, I'm afraid I didn't have the inclination to swap out the Ricks motor to find out after installing a new battery. I can say the Ricks spins the motor way faster than the original ever did.
Poor earths are always my go-to first on most electrical issues, amazing how many people pay out for professional powder coating on frames and then have electrical issues due to paint insulating earth points.
My bikes are just for pleasure and I don't mind spending out if I have to, and yes I have a few parts on shelves turned out I didn't actually need.

Jerry

[redglbx]

Yepper Jerry this electrical shite drive me nuts, ,,my daughter & son-in-law have a 95 Probe for y 2 youngest g-daughters to use while they are home from school and my s-in-law has been doing his best to keep it going but he’s just got way to many irons in the fires and he’s just working lots of extra OT to help with the tuition, about 18hrs yesterday so you add in his trying to help me since being released Saturday night post back reconstruction again, just not enough of him to go around.i worry about him !

And I simply can’t walk or drive to help, very frustrating .

[RSTman]

Here is a pic of the Ricks Motorsport starter install on my GL1000. Note the power cable is toward the top of the casing and at the opposite end to the standard motor. Hence the longer cable supplied. The cable terminal is quite a close fit next to the head, but it is OK. I relocated the cable clip to the next bolt up on the casings to suit.

Jerry

[Sidecar Bob]

If I didn't know better I'd say that looks like they assembled it with the ends reversed, but that is what the Rick's website shows so they must have done it that way on purpose.

Note that the same starter is sold for the GL1100 and some sellers do not list it as for a GL1000, but it is the same one.

The most significant difference between the GL1000 starter motor and the GL1100 starter motor is that the 1100 one is 3mm shorter.
The easiest difference to see is that the mounting lugs on the 1000 starter motor both have round holes but the lug farthest from the shaft end on the 1100 is elongated (see pic below)

I believe they may have made the 1100 starter motor shorter so that it can be removed without having to remove the rearmost exhaust stud. I had a GL1000 engine in my '83 for 23 years with 1000 starter motors most of that time and there was no way the starter would come out without removing that stud but now that I've changed to an 1100 engine (& starter motor) the stud can stay in.
https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=77527

Starter motors GL1000 vs GL1100.jpg

[RSTman]

According to Ricks the motor uses permanent magnets, so I assume the power terminal is located nearer the brushes for that reason.

Jerry