Water pump leak. Why and how.
Moderator: Whiskerfish
- octane
- SUPER BIKER!!!!
- Posts: 3763
- Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:24 pm
- Location: Denmark
Water pump leak. Why and how.
Oil leaking from pump weep hole ?
Water leaking from pump leak hole ?
Why ?...how does it happen ?
Oil can find it's way to the weep-hole this way:
This is the pump assembly see from the engine/OIL side:
..the only thing that keeps the oil out are
the aluminum washers.
If they are defective (or the bolts not tightened sufficiently)
the oil will pass through the holes for the bolts, (3 holes on pic)
(there's plenty of room around the bolts for that)
and into the the where the pump sits, and out the weep hole
(that's the hole on the side of the 'cylinder' on the pic)
Schematically it goes like this:
Green stuff is the oil
Red lines is the weep hole
Strangely the washers in the rebuild set are not to the same
dimensions as the originals.
The hole is a bit larger than 6.5mm
and originals has a hole a bit smaller than 6.5mm
The outer diameter is bigger on the ones from the rebuild set
It's the original one on the right:
..or oil could enter
IF it's somehow able to pass this O-ring on the pump:
witch sits like this,
see from inside the pump-body (shown without the pump installed)
and schematically it goes like this:
The O-ring is marked with a yellow dot.
Be sure to use the right O-ring.
Dimensions 37.2 x 2.3 mm
On the other hand water can only enter if it's
somehow able to pass the big O-ring (56 x 2.4mm)
Seen here on the pump:
and it would go like this:
Blue stuff is water.
O-ring marked with a yellow dot.
Throughout all this I take it that the pump itself
is fresh and new and not to blame for the weeping.
if the pump (the pump seals rather) were to blame it would look like this
Yellow lines: internal 'weep-hole' inside the pump
Red lines: weep hole
Blue stuff: water
Green stuff: oil
and all you can do is to replace the pump.
The internal weep hole inside the pump
starts from here (red ring)
Water leaking from pump leak hole ?
Why ?...how does it happen ?
Oil can find it's way to the weep-hole this way:
This is the pump assembly see from the engine/OIL side:
..the only thing that keeps the oil out are
the aluminum washers.
If they are defective (or the bolts not tightened sufficiently)
the oil will pass through the holes for the bolts, (3 holes on pic)
(there's plenty of room around the bolts for that)
and into the the where the pump sits, and out the weep hole
(that's the hole on the side of the 'cylinder' on the pic)
Schematically it goes like this:
Green stuff is the oil
Red lines is the weep hole
Strangely the washers in the rebuild set are not to the same
dimensions as the originals.
The hole is a bit larger than 6.5mm
and originals has a hole a bit smaller than 6.5mm
The outer diameter is bigger on the ones from the rebuild set
It's the original one on the right:
..or oil could enter
IF it's somehow able to pass this O-ring on the pump:
witch sits like this,
see from inside the pump-body (shown without the pump installed)
and schematically it goes like this:
The O-ring is marked with a yellow dot.
Be sure to use the right O-ring.
Dimensions 37.2 x 2.3 mm
On the other hand water can only enter if it's
somehow able to pass the big O-ring (56 x 2.4mm)
Seen here on the pump:
and it would go like this:
Blue stuff is water.
O-ring marked with a yellow dot.
Throughout all this I take it that the pump itself
is fresh and new and not to blame for the weeping.
if the pump (the pump seals rather) were to blame it would look like this
Yellow lines: internal 'weep-hole' inside the pump
Red lines: weep hole
Blue stuff: water
Green stuff: oil
and all you can do is to replace the pump.
The internal weep hole inside the pump
starts from here (red ring)
Da' Supercharged Bulldog
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection
not when there is nothing left to add
but when there is nothing left to take away"
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection
not when there is nothing left to add
but when there is nothing left to take away"
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
- Rat
- Photo Gallery Admin
- Posts: 15710
- Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:59 pm
- My Album: https://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/rat/
- RIP: cookie, KyPM, Roady
- Location: Toronto .... Canada
Thanks Lars
Just followed your step by step to fix the Fat Rat.
With long distance help from Darwin (RR) and Frenchy (Susan)
Thanks for the help all of you.
And Oldewing too of course.
Gord (I did do a BIT myself) Jones
With long distance help from Darwin (RR) and Frenchy (Susan)
Thanks for the help all of you.
And Oldewing too of course.
Gord (I did do a BIT myself) Jones
"I'd rather Ride than Shine"
‘14 KLR650 ... not a rat ... yet
‘84 GL1200i ‘R2B6' (Rat to Be 6, the last, adopted by twowings)
My Original 'RAT' was a hybrid '82 CB900/1100F
‘14 KLR650 ... not a rat ... yet
‘84 GL1200i ‘R2B6' (Rat to Be 6, the last, adopted by twowings)
My Original 'RAT' was a hybrid '82 CB900/1100F
- Whiskerfish
- President
- Posts: 37568
- Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:34 pm
- My Album: http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/whiskerfish/
- Location: Norfolk Va
Octane is there a torque value for the 3 bolts with the alum washers?? I could not find one so I used 80 inch lbs??
Steve
Steve
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
"Yea I do dance awkwardly, and I am having more fun than you" Taylor Swift
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1984 GL1200 Standard
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
"Yea I do dance awkwardly, and I am having more fun than you" Taylor Swift
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1984 GL1200 Standard
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
- octane
- SUPER BIKER!!!!
- Posts: 3763
- Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:24 pm
- Location: Denmark
- Whiskerfish
- President
- Posts: 37568
- Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:34 pm
- My Album: http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/whiskerfish/
- Location: Norfolk Va
The case bolts are what I based the 80 guess on. Not knowing the material composition I figured a bit lower would be ok. I know those washers are very soft and it should not take much to make them seal. I am going out to install it shortly so I will think about it a bit more after my coffee and may bump it up to 90.
Thanks for the thoughts and response.
Steve
Thanks for the thoughts and response.
Steve
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
"Yea I do dance awkwardly, and I am having more fun than you" Taylor Swift
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1984 GL1200 Standard
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
"Yea I do dance awkwardly, and I am having more fun than you" Taylor Swift
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1984 GL1200 Standard
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
-
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 4650
- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:52 pm
- Location: up by the Canadian border in WA state
hey, hey.
this all makes good sense to me. thanks again, octane.
my current problem is something else. I gotta start a new thread.
this all makes good sense to me. thanks again, octane.
my current problem is something else. I gotta start a new thread.
sorta bulldogged custom 1978 GL1000 - "geekster"
full Vetter dress 1979 GL1000 - "Barge" (currently down)
1986 1200 Aspencade - "Heart of Gold" - daily rider
1990 1500 Aspencade - It's ALIVE! but very, very naked. not in a good way.
1978 for $100 - project in worx
1978 from a previous member here - taking up space
my original '79 bought in '91 - replacing engine (eventually, maybe someday)
added an '05 1800 to the stable, all the rest gotta go
H2G2=42
A competent and self-confident person is incapable of jealousy in anything. Jealousy is invariably a symptom of neurotic insecurity. ~ Robert A. Heinlein
The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
full Vetter dress 1979 GL1000 - "Barge" (currently down)
1986 1200 Aspencade - "Heart of Gold" - daily rider
1990 1500 Aspencade - It's ALIVE! but very, very naked. not in a good way.
1978 for $100 - project in worx
1978 from a previous member here - taking up space
my original '79 bought in '91 - replacing engine (eventually, maybe someday)
added an '05 1800 to the stable, all the rest gotta go
H2G2=42
A competent and self-confident person is incapable of jealousy in anything. Jealousy is invariably a symptom of neurotic insecurity. ~ Robert A. Heinlein
The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
- Cookie
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 15821
- Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:37 pm
- RIP: 1950-2011
- Location: San Mateo, CA
There will be some debate on this but my opinion is that it is 30 years old.
Even with low mileage it is still 30 years old. This came up with me on fuel pumps as I have a few wing owning friends around here and folks on the board also echoed that fuel pumps rarely go bad.
I've had four out of four that are defective. I just ordered a new one from Frenchy as I am personally tired of 30 year old fuel pumps.
M water pump just gets the chance to seep once.
Even with low mileage it is still 30 years old. This came up with me on fuel pumps as I have a few wing owning friends around here and folks on the board also echoed that fuel pumps rarely go bad.
I've had four out of four that are defective. I just ordered a new one from Frenchy as I am personally tired of 30 year old fuel pumps.
M water pump just gets the chance to seep once.
Enjoy life,
Cookie
A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad.
Owner of 4.4 76s and one lone 75 Wings (does a spare engine make .2?)
Cookie
A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad.
Owner of 4.4 76s and one lone 75 Wings (does a spare engine make .2?)
- Whiskerfish
- President
- Posts: 37568
- Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:34 pm
- My Album: http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/whiskerfish/
- Location: Norfolk Va
If you take off the housing that the lower hose attaches to you can reach in and get your fingers on the pump fins. Try wiggling it. If there is more than a hair's worth of movement order a new pump.LakerV4 wrote:Is the reseal kit worth the effort or should a new pump be bought?
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
"Yea I do dance awkwardly, and I am having more fun than you" Taylor Swift
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1984 GL1200 Standard
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
"Yea I do dance awkwardly, and I am having more fun than you" Taylor Swift
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1984 GL1200 Standard
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
-
- Lead Member
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:09 pm
- Location: Houston, Texas
Coolant leak
Thanks for the link and advice, Randakk. My '77 Wing "Mirandy" was stored for about 26 years before I brought it back to life. "Mirandy" still has the original pump with the bakelite impeller. I'll replace it with the new metal impeller pump when the heat wave here in Houston eases up a bit. We'll see you again at the 2009 Randakks Customer Appreciation Rally.
Howard
Howard
Keep doing what you're doing and you'll keep getting what you're getting.
- LakerV4
- Cast Iron Member
- Posts: 77
- Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 9:21 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
I have taken my pump out and upon Physical inspection my assessment is.
Their should be NO detectable movement in the bearings of the pump shaft.
If any movement is present then a new pump will need to be installed. If the bearings are solid then new seals will do the job nicely as long as care is taken during the instillation.
Their should be NO detectable movement in the bearings of the pump shaft.
If any movement is present then a new pump will need to be installed. If the bearings are solid then new seals will do the job nicely as long as care is taken during the instillation.
1976 Hot wing
- Q
- Titanium Member
- Posts: 380
- Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:27 pm
- Location: Bend, Oregon
While replacing the hoses on my 79 I discovered that I could wiggle the water pump impeller side to side close to 1/4 inch. The bearings were toast. Took out the old pump and pressed it apart with a vise and some sockets. Bought a couple bearings at the local bearing supply shop and pressed it back together using the original ceramic seal. Put it back in with a front cover gasket/O ring set. Works great and I saved a bunch of money by not buying a new pump.
Q
Q
QQQ
- backyardbob
- High Mileage Guru
- Posts: 778
- Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:30 pm
- Location: madoc, ontario
-
- Silver Member
- Posts: 772
- Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:14 am
- Location: Florence,Alabama
-
- Similar Topics
- Replies
- Views
- Last post
-
- 39 Replies
- 5925 Views
-
Last post by Rat
-
- 3 Replies
- 1129 Views
-
Last post by Sidecar Bob
-
- 12 Replies
- 1735 Views
-
Last post by elslimdiablo
-
- 14 Replies
- 2194 Views
-
Last post by Lowrider Bud
-
- 7 Replies
- 2270 Views
-
Last post by gregforesi