'85 1200 won't turn over by hand.

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robin1731
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Re: '85 1200 won't turn over by hand.

#106

Post by robin1731 »

Toehead wrote:+ 1 on the hondabond, or the threebond 1194.

The threebond is what I have used for years on cases and where gas is near by. Like the carb boots on an inline four. Works very well. Unlike RTV that was on the carb boots on a bike I just did last week. :roll: Some people's kids.
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
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John Schmidt
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Re: '85 1200 won't turn over by hand.

#107

Post by John Schmidt »

I can't find Three Bond anywhere in the Orlando area, kinda surprising in a metro area this size. I did pick up a tube of Yamabond which would probably work but think I'll keep looking for the Three Bond and order it if I have to. Nearest Honda dealer is an hour or more away and not a fun ride through the entire metro area.
1984 GL1200 Standard, work in progress
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Re: '85 1200 won't turn over by hand.

#108

Post by terry_208 »

I'm so glad you got that. It did immediately put a grin on my face.
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John Schmidt
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Re: '85 1200 won't turn over by hand.

#109

Post by John Schmidt »

OK, time for a dumb question! The piece in my hand dropped off/out while I was struggling with reinserting the pistons. I can't find it on a parts breakdown and can't really pinpoint it in the manual. It looks like it belongs on the bearing just above my hand behind the shift mechanism but thought I'd swallow my pride and ask first. There's a small tab on the outer perimeter and I assume it fits in one of the notches in the case. Am I right in guessing it is a lube passage for those roller bearings? And the nozzle protruding from the "screen" side goes into the center of the bearings?

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1984 GL1200 Standard, work in progress
1998 Valkyrie Tourer, my Honda Davidson ;) Image
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CYBORG
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Re: '85 1200 won't turn over by hand.

#110

Post by CYBORG »

You are correct. Be sure and align the hole up
1978 custom GL1000
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1985 gl1200
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Norbert R
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Re: '85 1200 won't turn over by hand.

#111

Post by Norbert R »

Well done John, I'm so happy for you!
Perserverance and determination always win in the end.
Nulla futuit datum...
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robin1731
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Re: '85 1200 won't turn over by hand.

#112

Post by robin1731 »

John Schmidt wrote:snip............I can't find Three Bond anywhere in the Orlando area,
I get mine from Z1enterprises.
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
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John Schmidt
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Re: '85 1200 won't turn over by hand.

#113

Post by John Schmidt »

Well, looks like my troubles aren't over just yet. I have the two cases torqued down per specs and went to turn the crank over manually. When I did so, I had a disturbing noise that sounded like teeth on a gear skipping. Finally tracked it down to coming from the scavenger pump area. I can put my fingers on that little drive pulley and that's where the sharp noise is coming from. Not sure what I could have done to cause that, reinstalling the drive sprocket for that pump was a bit of a hassle but didn't force anything. So, looks like the outer section of the clutch comes off so I can pull the scavenger pump. If it isn't one thing, it's three more to take its place. Any thoughts on what might be wrong causing the pump to make that kind of noise? I think it's time to find something to sip on for a while before I hit the sack!

UPDATE: I don't believe it has anything to do with the scavenger pump, the sound must be transmitting via the case or something. It has to be some gearing not fully engaging because I can put it in gear and get no movement on the output shaft. If it's gearing, that means splitting the case, which means I'm done with it. This was supposed to be an enjoyable project and it has turned out to be anything but. Granted, some trials along the way are to be expected but this has gone on much too long and in the final analysis it's just not worth it to me. I'll just sell the entire lot, including some '84 engine parts. If I can't sell the parts, trash day comes twice a week. :) Maybe I'll find a running bike for a decent price and rework it, however it's not what I had in mind originally. Discouraged? Yes! :(
1984 GL1200 Standard, work in progress
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Re: '85 1200 won't turn over by hand.

#114

Post by Norbert R »

John, dont let it beat you.
Maybe someone close to you offers to come look at it with fresh eyes.
Certainly dont trash it :shock:
Alternatively, just shelve it for a while, until your resolve returns - you clearly are a guy with a lot of that ;)
You've been at it for too long, on your own. I think you need a break, it'll do you good....then in a while you'll want to tackle it once more, and you'll get it done
Nulla futuit datum...
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Re: '85 1200 won't turn over by hand.

#115

Post by Roady »

John Schmidt wrote:Roady, I know where Mulberry Grove is...
And I certainly know Winter Park. We lived in Cocoa Beach for 15 years when I was working in Melbourne. Daughter and grandkids are in Rockledge.

Smallish world, eh?
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Re: '85 1200 won't turn over by hand.

#116

Post by John Schmidt »

Well, my loving wife and I had a chat over a nice dinner when I took her out to one of our favorite places a couple days ago. The subject of the 1200 came up(from her), and she simply told me she had never seen me give up on any project I had ever started. Granted, a few times it took longer than either of us expected, but I never quit and dumped the project....whatever it was. And, as wives often are....she was right on target, I hated the thought of dropping the entire thing. So, after a couple days I adressed the situation again, and things went rather smoothly. The first time I split the cases it took me quite a while since I was learning what was needed to be done. This time....15 minutes tops. If you recall I spent many hours trying to reinstall the pistons the first time around and got quite frustrated, and again it was a learning experience. This time....got it on the third try. But I digress, I did find out what was hitting and causing the sound of gear teeth ticking against something. I'll try to show it with pictures and it has to do with the shifting mechanism, both internally and externally. Had I known then what I know now, I wouldn't have needed to split the case the second time.
As you probably know, the lever in my hand engages the ratchet mechanism each time you shift. The post I'm pointing to is supposed to be straddled by the two narrow fingers just in front of my thumb. However, the shaft that the large spring is mouted on will move in/out just enough to cause that clevis arrangement to disengage as you see in the picture.
Image

This is how it should look.
Image

When that is disengaged as shown in the first picture, it will allow that shaft with the large spring to turn, thereby disengaging the small "knob" I'm pointing to. The small "Y" shaped arm to the left is supposed to straddle that knob...which is supposed to be pointing straight down. If the outer arm is disengaged, that shaft will turn in either direction more than enough to separate the internal "Y" and "knob." In my case, that small "Y" doodad was pointing the other direction and the main problem was actually the gears hadn't been allowed to fully engage. I'm guessing the synchros were just touching as I turned the crank. What ever it was, it was a heck of a sound.
Image

By being certain that large shaft is all the way in, and the outer action is straddling the post, you can reengage the internal "knob" and "Y" by turning the shifter arm by hand(the arm your shift lever attaches to activated by your toe), lower/turn the large shaft the knob is mounted on and you can roll the two inward together. They will now be set up to activate the external ratchet shift mechanism. This is how the shift mechanism should look internally.
Image

I realized how it had happened the first time around. The ratchet arm was hanging down and while I was struggling with reinserting the pistons, that arm got bumped enough to disengage the spring loaded ratchet arm from the outer post. Not knowing what had been done, I manually shifted(I thought) the unit by loosely attaching the arm your toe engages. It didn't feel right but did make a "shifting" sound....then when I turned it over by hand is when I got the noise. Needless to say, my spirits sank. Had I known what it took to fix the problem externally, I wouldn't have needed to open the case again....now I know! So, when it came time to start reinserting the pistons, I zip tied that outer arm in place so it wasn't hanging down and wouldn't be disengaging anything. After I got the pistons in, I pressed the case together without any sealer just to test it. It shifted fine, no gear noise, all's well that ends well. Raised the cases enought to spread the sealer, lowered the case again and bolted it down. Now, with the outer shift arm mounted I can shift up/down through the gears, all works fine. As you can see, the engine is pretty clean internally, I didn't wipe it down except to soak up some old oil. Hope this will help someone in the future, if nothing else at least alert you what to watch for. Now to order some gaskets and put this fool thing together. dancr
1984 GL1200 Standard, work in progress
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Re: '85 1200 won't turn over by hand.

#117

Post by gltriker »

All of us are smiling, again! :-D
Last edited by gltriker on Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic ... 44#p823844 page 27, post # 391 is presently still available
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Re: '85 1200 won't turn over by hand.

#118

Post by ericheath »

Great job! Someday I hope to try this. Zip tie. I'll have to remember that one.
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77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
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Re: '85 1200 won't turn over by hand.

#119

Post by CYBORG »

I'm glad you found it. Aligning that shift stuff in front of the engine can be a pain.
1978 custom GL1000
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1985 gl1200
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Re: '85 1200 won't turn over by hand.

#120

Post by Norbert R »

I knew you were gonna win action1 action1 action1
Nulla futuit datum...
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