My Wing: progress shots

[Whiskerfish]

For timing electronics the procedure is basically the same as a set of points. I use the static method described in the manuals and on Randakk's pages. Find the 2 wires that come out of the the points housing and where they connect (up just in front of the battery box) to the main wiring harness insert a test light into the connector. From that point the procedures should be the same as points.

I think Under Octanes Thread in his "Corner" there is a copy of the procedure for a Dyna setup. They are all basically the same.

[Alley Kat]

Thanks WF. I re-gapped the plugs which helped a lot, will check timing next. Got the 'man flu' today and can't do much or think too well, got to leave it alone today. The pipes are quite loud after all, but sound excellent... most pleased with that.

[Cookie]

Got a bit of a bug myself today mate so I can sympathize. My yellow bike is due in a couple hours so that should cheer me up.
If you can't drag your arse off the couch for a bike delivery I reckon you are dead.

[Alley Kat]

Hope the delivery went well Cookie.

I give up, no chance of an Xmas ride for me now. Need the glass timing cap, can't static time it, and attempts to make a cover for timing with a strobe light failed.
The front brake setup is being a pain as well, tried suction (syringe), reverse bleeding, cracking the master cyl connection, tube with one-way valve. Ordered a vacuum kit now.

One of those "where's the matches" situations.

[hmratbam]

For the timing thing Whiskerfish screws a 2" long piece of plastic pipe in the timing hole.

[Alley Kat]

Now that's a very fine idea, thanks for that...

[Cookie]

Good thinking Ron. I'd probably just set it up by taking out number 1 plug, turning the ignition on with the engine at whatever degree it sets at. Then I turn point set or electronic or what ever until I get the spark.
Not too long ago I made an electronic ignition from a Ford amplifier and a hall effect distributor for one of my bikes and set it up like that. It runs fine. A cheap protractor on a pulley wheel can give you degrees if you find TDC with a screwdriver on top of the piston.
Whiskerfish's method sounds far easier.
Boy did I ever learn how to set initial timing on a bike the hard way.

[Cookie]

Sorry,

My brain jammed on timing, thanks the delivery went well. I'm feeling a bit better today and hope to put a bit of time on the bike.
I'm behind on wrapping presents and I promised the wife an Ikea trip.
Then I'd best prepare the BMW for the Christmas trip to Lake County which is about five hours north. After that we have several folks coming in from New Zealand next weekend.
With all these distractions it's hard to get the really important stuff done like fiddling with your bike.
The good part for you is that if things slow you down a bit you'll get time to think of solutions to your problems and double check everything.

[octane]

...I think Under Octanes Thread in his "Corner" there is a copy of the procedure for a Dyna setup. They are all basically the same.

Click: DYNA ignition timing


.

[Alley Kat]

Cheers, yeah I saw that thread and indeed the Newtronic is the same species of beast. But the prob I have is that the 12v bulb glows over a wide arc of crank travel either side of the F marks, hard to describe but 'loads' of movement. It gives no clue about lining the marks up. Don't know if this is a consequence of it being optical or what. Or I wonder if the bulb load comes into it.
Going to hook up the strobe again, with a tube 'sight', and see what gives.

[ElPiloto]

The weights and springs of the advance mechanism will cause the timing light to wander. On distributors, I used to drill a hole through the plate below the advance so that I could put a screw into it and prevent the advance from advancing at all. The screw in the plate system usually works well, but you may have to do something else. Also, if there is a vacuum advance, just unlplug it while testin.

I adjust the timing on everything street driven by using advance and centrifugal advance and riding with a few acceleration runs. If it pings too much, back off the timing until it doesn't. If it doesn't ever ping while making test runs, advance it until it does, then back off a tiny bit.

Trial and error is the best teacher.

[Alley Kat]

I did wonder about the ATU, locking out is a good idea, thanks. No idea what to expect from a Wing ATU, and there's no specs for wear or spring tension etc anywhere, but it feels basically OK.

This static time thing is foxing me; you can swing the F marks a good ways either side of the sight hole and the blub still glows. I'll try a meter and different bulbs, first I used an LED which glowed for loads of flywheel travel. This bulb (using the original taillight unit) for less travel.

If I can't get it straight I'll either admit defeat and get a shop to look, or throw the Newtronic system away and go Dyna. Had a couple of Dyna S systems before so i'd be at home with that, though I can't remember them having clockwork timing units.

[octane]

Sorry; maybe I am completely misunderstanding your post
but I'm thoughly confused by it.
I'm not putting you down or anything but
I'm afraid you're wrong (...or as I said; it could be me)

The weights and springs of the advance mechanism will cause the timing light to wander

[Scratching my head]..yep, that's the whole idea,
if we're talking dynamic timing.
(Cause during staic timing it does not 'wander').
At idle (let's say 900rpm) the advance mechanism will
not move the time of ignition (which here is 5 deg. BTDC = BeforeTopDeadCenter)
but from there on it will move the time of ignition
reaching full advance at around 23-2600rpm.

.. I used to drill a hole through the plate below the advance so that I could put a screw into it and prevent the advance from advancing at all.

I don't get that.
You do NOT want to do that on your GL.
During static timing it won't move and during dynamic timing
the whole idea is to set the ignition
according to the full advance which is 37 deg. BTDC
governed by the advance mechanism.

Click this: DYNA mounted on the GL1000 advance mechanism
(Voted "Most Boring Video on YouTube".... ha ha ha)

...so you go up to 3000rpm and check if the horizontal
lines on the 'flywheel' is aligned with the case index= 37 deg. BTDC

It's all in the manual.

..if there is a vacuum advance, just unlplug it while testin..

No.
Why would you wonna do that.
IF you did it: you would set the timing to condition A =(running without
vacuum advance)
but you be riding the bike and running the engine in condition B =(running WITH the vacuum advance)

Besides there is no such thing on the GL1000.


(Yes I'm aware that for some engines the timing adjustment
figures are given for adjusting while disabling advance mec/vacuum
but that's a different thing....looong explanation)

Trial and error is the best teacher.

..but the Honda Manual isn't such a bad idea either
.-)

[Alley Kat]

I believe what EP means is not in a 'healthy' situation, but that an iffy ATU could cause idle timing to be problematic, if it were a bit 'baggy' and the weights could hop about a little. Thats what I took it for anyways.

On many cars like my 68 Amazon where there's a vac advance canister you have to remove the tube to set basic timing. Often block the tube as well because that may cause rough running otherwise, with air being drawn into carb or manifold.
Though the things are sometimes useless anyway on tuned engines where manifold vacuum is low or pulsing due to lumpy cams/overlap/intake reversion etc. Anyway thankfully nonesuch thing on the Wing.

ps - lockdown the atu only to make sure idle timing is set OK, then unlock it. Then check timing afterwards, wandering timing to a baggy atu.

[Cookie]

I usually just follow the basic directions in the manual and get by. If the bike is modified than you have to be creative, but it is all basically the same.
I don't recall ever setting an opical sensor ignition but, say on the hall effect I was just working on, it sets right on the line for basic timing. On a lot of them you might have say a long dark spot followed by a short period when the light lights for initial timing. This is because the spark is building during that long dwell and just on the line is where you want it to let go and fire.
I check that with number 1 plug out to see that it sparks at the right time. On some later coils this could be a problem but I think it would be ok for something this old tech.
Seems like everything sets differently these days, both my cars are fully electronic and you don't set them at all.