sluggish starter

[peteschulz]

Hi All, Hoping someone can help. My '83 wing is very slugish when I try to start it. Barley turns over, not enough to start it. Checked battery, connections, solenoid. Is it possible for starter to sort of work? I am losing my mind .

HELP!
Pete

[rcmatt007]

it is possile for a starter to barely work. I would first see if a direct connection by jumper cables to the starter makes a difference (put the bike on the center stand before trying this and aboslutley make sure it is in neutral).... if the starter is still sluggish, then you will probably need to rebuild or replace the starter. you might also just be able to open the starter and clean up the contacts

[Dougal]

Sounds like the comutator in tehstarter motor is burnt, the brushes are worn, or the windings are going south. When you disconnect the starter motor, take care. If the stud is allowed to turn it can destroy the connection behind it. Always hold the nut behind the connection with a thin 10mm spanner. I have ground a couple of 10mm spanners just for this job.

Dougal

[Whiskerfish]

Ok I am gonna ask the obvious Is the battery any good?? You did not metion the batter charge status or if you tried to jump it off??

WF

[peteschulz]

Thanks for the tips guys, I jumped the starter with cables and had the same result. So I have removed and will rebuild or replace.

Thanks again,

Pete

[Try]

This is an old "how to" for GL1200, but I think you can
use it for your GL1100 also, I think.

ken.jo@shaw.ca have made this how to.

Removal/Overhaul of GL1200 starter motor.

I have attempted to make this list of instructions as simple as possible so

that it could be understood by all. Should you have any questions or need

clarification with respect to any aspect of this procedure, please do not

hesitate to contact me via email at ken.jo@shaw.ca

To understand why the bike must be on the sidestand for this procedure,

you must understand that the starter is driven by a gear in a drive chain

off the starter clutch. The starter is plugged into the engine casing and

engages the gear that basically hangs loose in the chain that comes down

from the starter clutch. After you pull out the starter, you will notice

the round hole. When you look into the hole, you will see the gear hanging

in the chain in the middle of the open hole. If the bike was on the

centerstand, the chain would swing over and the gear would not be in the

middle of the hole. Thusly, the starter will not engage the gear when you

go to plug it back into the engine casing. Put the bike on the sidestand

and leave it there until the starter motor is back in.

**** This removal procedure applies to the 1985 (late) to 1987 GL1200 only. The 1984 and early 1985 GL1200 starter motor is different and can be removed by following the instructions given for the GL1000/1100 series. The late 1985 to 1987 starter motor is easily identified by the hump on the casing near the reduction gear case housing where it plugs into the engine.

1. Bike on sidestand.

2. Disconnect the battery.

3. Disconnect the cable from the starter motor.

4. If the bike is equipped with floorboards, remove the one on the starter

side as well as the heel/toe shifter and any connection to the shift shaft

protruding from the engine.

5. If the bike is equipped with a factory shifter, remove it from the shift

shaft as well as the footpeg.

6. Remove the exhaust system on both sides of the bike and just lower it to

the ground. This sounds involved but is actually quite easy. There are

4 exhaust nuts per side and the rear hanger bolts. You will need new

copper exhaust gaskets for the reinstallation.

7. Remove the two exhaust manifold studs from the bottom of Cylinder #4

(the rear one on the left side). Use a stud remover tool or the old

double nut trick.

8. Remove the two 8mm bolts that secure the starter motor to the engine.

Wiggle the starter out of the engine casing and away out through the

area that you created by removing the exhaust and studs.

9. Repair the starter motor as required.

10. Reinstall in the reverse order. Put grease or vaseline on the O ring

to aid in inserting the starter back into the casing.





The starter motor itself consists of three (3) main sections. Prior to

disassembly, use a scribe or felt marker and mark the casing across the

three sections to ensure that they are reassembled correctly and are

oriented to each other.

1. remove the three long bolts that hold the sections together and separate

them. Be careful as there are a series of flat thrust washers on each

end of the armature (located in the middle section). Record the

location and number of the thrust washers. Ensure they go back in their

original locations upon reassembly.

2. the end cap basically performs no function other than to cover the brush

plate and commutator area as well as center the armature shaft with its

bearing in the end of the cap.

3. the drive end contains the reduction gearing and if need be, can be

disassembled to replace the bearing. This is extremely unlikely. The

shaft should turn freely and normally only requires a cleaning and

grease application. Simply remove the gear case cover screws, inspect

the gears for wear or damage (not likely) and lubricate the gears with

grease. Align the dowel pin with the groove on the gear upon reassembly

of the gear case.

4. remove the brush plate from the end of the center section by removing

the screw at the one brush connection. Before removing the brushes,

note that one of them has an insulating sleeve over the braided wire.

The replacement must go in the same brush holder. Remove the brushes

and replace if necessary and clean the brush plate. ** Brake Cleaner is

a good general cleaner for this entire job.

5. remove the armature from the center section.

6. thoroughly clean everything using the Brake Cleaner. Although the

cleaner will dry without leaving a film, it is suggested that the

components be dried with compressed air.

7. get some extremely fine steel wool (000 of even 0000 is better) and

gently clean the metal surfaces or bars of the armature and the

commutator. Blow with compressed air.

8. using a volt/ohmeter, test for continuity between pairs of armature

bars (the long ones). There should be continuity between the pairs

around the entire circumference.

9. check for continuity between pairs of commutator bars (the short ones),

and also between the commutator bars and the armature shaft. There

should be continuity between the pairs of bars but NOT to the shaft.

10. check for continuity of the field coils. There should be from one end

to the other.

11. check for continuity from the cable terminal to the motor case and from

the cable terminal to the brush wire that protrudes at the other end.

There should be continuity from the terminal to the brush wire but NOT

from the terminal to the casing.

12. reinsert the armature back into the center section.

13. reinstall the drive end with the reduction gears.

14. reinstall the brush plate with the new brushes.

15. reinstall the end cap.

16. reinstall the three long bolts.

Test the starter by hooking jumper cables up - positive lead to the cable

connector and negative lead to the starter motor casing. The starter should

dance across the table or floor.



*** the modification made to the grounding circuit of the starter motor is

not really necessary, but if you wish to provide a more precise ground

connection, then an appropriate section of stranded copper wire will have

to be spot welded (preferably) to the brush plate with the other end

secured to the end cap via a simple nut and bolt mounted in a drilled

through hole in the cap. I suggest you seal the hole with silicone to

waterproof the area. Rather than spot welding, the end could be riveted

securely to the brush plate. Take your pick.

[Goose]

If you have to, check out http://www.stockers.com/ . I got a rebuilt starter from 'em for a little over a hundred exchange when I got my GL1100A. The starter was burnt. The shops will tell you the motor has to come out, the rear cover has to come off. The manual will tell you that, too. But, I'm here to tell you they are FOS! Bike on the side stand, pull the exhaust out of the way, take the starter off, you can easily stab the sprocket into the splines on re-assembly. I've done this on several Wings after distraught customers brought me their wings. Not a tough job at all, but the manual makes it sound like a flippin' nightmare, LOL!

[BIG T]

bravo!!! goose

[the chef]

I just did a starter swap on a gl 1100 , it can be done very easily...with the bike on the center stand I removed the bolts from exhaust on that side only,then remove the shifter,disconnect the power cable,pull the starterbolts. this part can be tricky tho, I was just barely able to fit a socket to remove the front bolt, if it is rounded and your socket slips then you will have to lower the exhaust. the trick to removal of the starter is to lift the starter up(after pulling starter out of the hole ,maybe tap it with a hammer to back it out) then twist the top side out. make sure the sproket and chain are centered before refitting the new starter in reversal of the same motions. I probably could do this in the field in about 15 minutes or less, it can be done easier than service manuals describe. smash

[pissrpr]

I don't know if I am missing something here or what, but..............
the only thing I ever remove when yanking the starter on my 1100 is the starter.

To reach the 8mm bolts (the one behind the exhaust) I use an elbow socket extension.
To get clearance for the starter to come out around the gear selector I just push down into first as I am pulling it out. I might take a little fenagling (sp?-hell is it even a word) but it will come out.

To get it back in is the reverse. The only issue, really, that I have had is putting the bolt back in behind the exhaust. I have long fingers so it helps get things started. My trick is to make sure the starter is not binding that bolt and work it in slowly by hand, so as to not crossthread and then put the ratchet on it. Warning!!! Be careful b/c those bolts will break if you fart too loud and they are very difficult to drill for an ease-out. (Ask me how I know)

I know the manual says this and that, but when you are at a truck stop 500 miles from home and the starter takes a crap, the less you have to take loose the further you stay ahead of that weather front.

Hope this helps. I'll get some pics up later if anyone is interested. I know it helps me mucho more if I have a pic to look at instead of a paragraph.

cheers
clay

[Whiskerfish]

might take a little fenagling (sp?-hell is it even a word) .
cheers
clay

fi-na-gle: to get (something) by trickery or deceit
v- finagled, finagling


I knew what you were talking about

[QUEEENlE]

Very good Whiskerfish ... next week's vocabulary words will be printed tomorrow. <grin>

Hugs
Q

[Dougal]

One peice of info on this, if your are replacing your starter motor with another one, try to get one from a GL1000. FDor some reason they are more powerful. Also they are a couple of mm longer, but they still fit onece the exhuast studs are removed to assist in teh installation

Dougal

[pissrpr]

might take a little fenagling (sp?-hell is it even a word) .
cheers
clay

fi-na-gle: to get (something) by trickery or deceit
v- finagled, finagling


I knew what you were talking about

The new and improved Wiskerfiskapedia!

Thanks for keeping me honest.

[Dave of Hutto]

I was screwing up the altenator on my voayger by trying to use a #2 pillips on the screws. When I should have been using a impact driver (the hit it with a hammer type) here is the question: Do you need to use an impact driver to pull the 3 screws out?