The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

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The NGW Project Bike. Timing belts. Removal/installation

Post #1 by octane » Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:19 pm

PLEASE NOTE:

Any reference to Right means 'right' as seen from sitting on the bike
NOT as you see it on the pictures

Any reference to Left means 'left' as seen from sitting on the bike
NOT as you see it on the pictures

The T-1 mark means the T mark on the crank
under witch you'll find a F and the number 1


This thread is for a 77 GL1000





What you need:
..a set of timing belts
part #14400-371-04/14400-371-14 for the early models
(later models 78-79 have different number ...mmmm???)
or alternatively Randakk suggests:
Gates #T274
NAPA #250274
Goodyear Gatorback #40274 (available at AutoZone and others)

..a 12 mm ring spanner with a decent 'offset' (more on that later)
Image

...and maybe a set of 'tension rollers'
part # 14510-371-008
(they are about 60$ a piece (!!!))


Oh yeah; you need to remove the radiator...well not strictly,
but I wouldn't want to do this job without removing it...no way!




Remove front covers:
Image



...remove spark plugs (you don't wonna turn the engine with the plugs in position.-)

...remove generator bolt cap
Image
so you can get in there with your offset 12mm rings spanner.(This is where it needs to be offset)

This is the way the engine/crank will be turned during this procedure.

TURN CLOCKWISE ONLY!
You don't want to loosen that bolt.



...remove timing mark cap
Image
turn engine as described above until the T-1 mark aligns with
engine block marks (it looks a little 'out' on the photo. It's the angle)

AND (this is important)
the pulley marks aligns with the marks on the engine cover
like here on LEFT side (seen from sitting on bike..remember)
Image

and

RIGHT side
Image
Last edited by octane on Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:54 am, edited 7 times in total.

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Post #2 by octane » Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:05 pm

.

....mark this position on the central pulley and engine block

Image

...now release the tentioner bolts (*)
Image

and remove the belt(*)
Image


..when you do that(*)
the right pulley (photo-left)
will 'wander/turn' out of position
when you remove the belt,
as it is 'riding' on cam 'slope'
(witch is under the influence of the valve springs).
Don't worry:
one thing you can do to calm your nerves
and keep it in position:

put the new belt loosely over the pulley and

...holding the pulley in the CORRECT POSITION (marks aligned)
'strip' a spanner to the frame,
Image
...do not use the spanner to turn the pulley. Use your hands
...then 'lock' it with the spanner.
(make absolutely sure you did not turn (release) the bolt)


Here's a nifty trick posted by Mooseheadm5 in another thread:

"..one thing that made it super easy
(and reduced the anxiety level quite a bit)
was that I loosened the tappet adjusters all the
way ...... [snip]
... you do not have to fight the
valve springs much, plus the cams do not want to snap
back or forward so you do not necessarily need to
use Octane's zip-tied wrench trick. ...."

Thanks Moosehead
Last edited by octane on Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:15 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Post #3 by octane » Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:33 pm

.


...release left tensioner bolts
Image

..remove belt

..put on new belt

Check the tensioners or 'tension roller'.
You may think they are 'fine' : they 'roll' and don't make funny sounds?
You wont know until you've had a set of new rollers in your hands:
They should be real 'tight' as a set of new roller bearings...witch I think
they are, in fact.
If they appear 'dry' or make any sounds; re-new and get rid of that high pitched whining sound associated with 'dry' rollers.

..this is how they go in left side (photo-right)
Image


and the spring attaches
Image


...pulleys in correct position (both crank pulley and cam pulley)
...belt tight at the bottom
...tension roller loosely attached
(let the spring do the tension. On photo it is not on yet...ooops)
Image

..check crank marks again
Image


and check cam pulley marks again
Image
Last edited by octane on Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post #4 by octane » Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:11 pm

...attach right tension roller
(goes on like this)
Image

and put on new belt

...check marks again
Image
and re-re check crank marks


Now the new belts are on and tensioner roller bolts are not yet
tightened.

Now for 'adjusting' the belt tension:

LEFT side: (right photo-side)

check what mother Honda says: (note This pic not hosted at NGW.)
Image
NOTE: the spring pressure automatically positions the tensioner
...so no 'extra' pressure' on the tensioner before tightening the
tensioner back plate bolts
!!!


..easy! But how about the RIGHT side with that cam pulley
being forced into a roll by the cam lobe.
Mothership Honda is not telling!

There's been much talk in the forum about how to get the
same tension on the right belt,
and now I've finally found the perfect procedure/explanation
in "Motorcycle Mechanics" magazine from February 1978 (!!!)
I that nerdy....or what?! ho ha

"To tension the right hand..[snip]..the engine should be turned
through 360 degrees and the little arrows on the
cam-wheels should then face inwards
...
Image
Image
...this is by the way, with the engine once more
positioned at "T1".
(*) You then do the same trick with
the tensioner
(and the spanner as per Honda
but now on the right side ) locking
it up after the spring has done its job
"

Voila!


(*) this might sound a bit confusing
but remember:
it takes 2 revolutions of the crank shaft
for each revolution of the cam shaft.


Now: re-check everything..all marks
Turn the engine by hand a few times ..and re-check.
This is an 'inteference-engine', meaning that if
the belt is few notches off; the valves will hit the top of the pistons!!!!!

You have probably been doing this with the engine cold.
The advise mentioned on Randakks site is to check
and re-adjust when the engine is warm, as it does
expand horizontally warming up.


Here's what Brian experienced:

Briang wrote:....I took off the belt covers to examine
what I had done before. The engine was very warm
and the belts seemed very tight.
Too tight in my estimation and I had not applied
any more tension to the belts than the spring
provided on the roller, just like Octaine says.
Returning here for confirmation of procedures,
I came upon Randakks tip being referenced somewhere.
I then put a wrench on the bolts holding the tensioners,
one side at a time and watched carefully.
Each time I loosened one tensioner
(first the non spring end enough to allow the
plate to rotate and then the spring end)
I visibly saw the cam belt relax, just a bit.
The belt it still tight but it feels much better
than the "singing" tight it seemed before...

Thanks Brian


Do yourself (or future owners) a favor and mark down the
time and km/miles for the belt replacement
Image


Check/re-adjust valve clearance
and check/re-adjust ignition timing


New belts CAN move the ignition timing a much as a few degrees according to Randakk.




Live happily ever after!




UPDATE:

Roady/Steve has been kind enough to make
this thread into a Pdf, that you can download,
print out and bring with you to our workshop.
Nifty!

Click this:
Download the PDF of "Octane's Timing Belts Procedure"

Thanks a lot Steve.
Last edited by octane on Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:00 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Thanks

Post #5 by RAT » Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:30 pm

Thanks Octane.
Great (as usual).

Gord :P
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Post #6 by f4igrad » Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:48 pm

THANK YOU! This is the best writeup I have found online. It is so good that I am going to try to do the belts myself and then have my friend check the timing for me (I have never adjusted the timing before).

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?

Post #7 by semerm » Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:18 pm

any difference with a 76 gl1000?

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Post #8 by octane » Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:11 am

Thanks Rat, f4igrad !





Semerm:
any difference with a 76 gl1000?

Nope.

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Post #9 by Whiskerfish » Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:25 am

Octane that is awesome. I love that little trick for the RH belt tension!! It makes so much sense one of us should have come up with it before!!

GREAT JOB AS ALWAYS
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and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!

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Post #10 by QUEEENlE » Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:30 pm

I probably wont ever do it myself .... but with those instructions .. i bet i could.

Thank Lars

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Post #11 by octane » Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:18 pm

Whiskerfish wrote:Octane that is awesome. I love that little trick for the RH belt tension!! It makes so much sense one of us should have come up with it before!!

GREAT JOB AS ALWAYS

Thanks WF.
..yeah, its one of those; "why didn't I come up with that".

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Post #12 by octane » Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:20 pm

QUEEENlE wrote:I probably wont ever do it myself .... but with those instructions .. i bet i could.

Thank Lars

Hugs
Q

You're welcome Q.
Promise you'll do it your self, if you ever have to change belts.
We'll guide you !!!

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Interference engine?

Post #13 by UniCacher » Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:18 pm

I am picking up my '77 GL1000 next Saturday, engine history unknown. I'm getting a steal on it and it's from a friend that has kept good care of it, so I'm not too worried.

It does have 46,000 miles on it... probably time for new timing belts. Having blown one on my... um... car, I know it's an important thing to do! Question is, is the GL1000 an interference engine or not? In other words, how screwed am I if a belt breaks before I get to it?

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Post #14 by QUEEENlE » Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:53 pm

Screwed ... least thats what i was told.

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O, for a horse with WINGS ~Shakespeare

____*____*____*____*____*____*____

Most things make me say, hmmmmm

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I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was going to blame you!

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Post #15 by Annie's Boyfriend » Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:51 pm

Thanks for showing us how it has to be done without worries.

All we have to do now is follow it step by step and it is a job that even I can tackle now.

No need to let someone else do it.

Keep up the good work, I will have to rename you to GL-doctor.....

Bart
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