'85 1200 won't turn over by hand.

[John Schmidt]

I started this as a new topic in hopes someone had some thoughts on my next move, I'm kinda anxious to get going. I'm about to the point of cleaning and painting the engine prior to installing, but thought I'd check it out first. This isn't the engine that came with the '84 Std. I bought last year, the engine swallowed a valve so I'm just going to replace it with the later model '85 and lower mileage.

None of the valves appear to be stuck open, but when I try pulling it through with a breaker bar on the front under the timing covers, it will turn less than 180 deg. and it just won't go any farther. The plugs are out, and the trans. is in neutral. When it stops, it's not a metallic sound....really no sound at all. It just won't turn any more. Any suggestions as to what to look at? It's an '85 with approx. 38k on it, when I pulled the valve covers it was quite clean. I'm looking for ideas before I pull the heads, I do have some spare 1200 heads but would prefer to keep it intact if possible. Ideas....anyone??

[CYBORG]

You didn't say, but i'm assuming the belts are on. You might ck the timing marks on the cam pulleys to make sure the cams are timed correctly

[John Schmidt]

snip.....but i'm assuming the belts are on

Yes, everything is still in place except the valve covers. Starter, clutch slave, belts, etc. It's strange to me because on other engines when I've turned them over and a valve interfered I could hear a little metalic "tick" so this has me a bit confused. I don't hear anything....it just won't turn any farther.

[oldwings 78]

There seems to be something in one of your cylinders. Get a bore light and take a peak. I used to put starter rope in the spark plug hole on chainsaws so I could torque down the flywheel easier. Sounds like the same symptoms whether intentional or accidental.
Terry

[82aspy]

in case you didn't know 84 is a one year only as far as internal gearing goes, all the rest of the 1200 engines are the same

sounds like you just checked the engine now for turnover and will have to get to the bottom of it

[John Schmidt]

While I was doing some checking, my wife pointed to one spark plug I had pulled before trying to turn it over. She asked "isn't there supposed to be a gap there?" and pointed to the electrode. I had totally missed it....it had been crunched down flat. Needless to say, my spirits sank to the bottom because I knew what to expect. Pulled the left head and sure enough, the rear cylinder had a busted valve and was embedded in the piston. Strangely enough, the other piston looked like it had a fresh strike as well and the intake wasn't centered in the seat. I had noticed earlier the left belt seemed quite loose so now I'm guessing someone changed them without knowing what they were doing and go the timing off.....at my expense. With a possible double strike like that, what are the chances of having a flat crank? I'm not really wanting to even mess with this engine but I can't afford to throw away the money I paid for it either. Doubt the recycler will make good on it since it's been about a year now and I just got to the point of needing to clean/paint the engine for installation. Can't believe it, I got this Std. because the left front cyl. swallowed a valve. Now I'm faced with the same thing on a different engine in an adjoining cylinder. I'll be pulling the right head and look for similar marks and if they're present, guess I'll just strip the block of anything I can use and toss it. Like I said...I have no desire to rebuild anything at this time but may not have a choice. Notice in the second and third pictures, the intake in the front cyl. isn't centered but is setting against the seat. In the third picture it appears as though there was a valve strike on that piston as well, note how shiney that spot is! There isn't an icon on here big enough to show how angry I am. Famous last words from the recycler; "yeah, runs fine, no problem." I guess I should have checked it right away, just to be sure instead of waiting all this time until I was ready for the engine.

[NCScooter]

You have my sympathy. Ugh.

[rod willis]

Sorry to hear of the problem you have but before you throw anything away you might see if there
is enough parts between the two too build a good motor between them.
If you do this make sure not to mix up the bearings and the cranks keep the 84 together and do
the same with the 85 good luck
Rod

[John Schmidt]

Rod, I already got rid of the '84 after stripping all the good stuff off it. It was in worse shape than this engine. There is a local guy that is good with the old bikes of all types, in his mid 60's and has a huge shop....been there for years and I've used him numerous times for different stuff I don't have tools for. I'm going to have a chat with him later this week and see what he might be able to do for me, have too much invested to quit now.

[rod willis]

That sounds like a good game plan getting it split in half is not a real big deal and by doing that
you can see what the crank and the bores are like if things look good I might get some good piston and rings and build a good short block and get what ever else you need at least you will know what
you have
Rod

[terry_208]

I was thinking the same. I checked to see your location, thinking that might be a possibility. I've been thinking about a 1200 for my 1000.

[rcmatt007]

OUCH! And people wonder why we obsess about changing the timing belts

[Casper]

That's just plain ugly John. Hope you can find the parts, or a good replacement engine.

How does it go? "If it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all"

[John Schmidt]

I did find what appears to be an '87 short block with 36k on ebay. Less than $100 and free shipping. I sent a note asking if the crank was still in place, just because it shows the pistons doesn't necessarily mean the crank is there. Can't imagine it isn't though. With my '85 I could buy a gasket set and switch everything over, using one of the spare heads I have. Still waiting for a response from them and the original cycler where I bought this engine, want to see if he'll make good on it. Not holding my breath.

[rcmatt007]

go for an engine.... just a thought