The NGW Project Bike. DYNA ignition.How-to TIME / ADJUST

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The NGW Project Bike. DYNA ignition.How-to TIME / ADJUST

Post #1 by octane » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:25 am

.


Remove timing mark cap:

Image



..remove generator bolt/cap
and insert 12 mm ring-spanner, onto the bolt inside :

Image



The spanner need to have an 'off-set' in order to be able
to 'grab' the 12 mm bolt inside the hole:

Image


..you might want to make the spanner longer, by inserting it
into a long tube-thingy
or interlock it with some other spanner:
Image

This will enable you to be much more precise when
moving the bolt/turning engine.


Also you may want to (on the early kick-start models)
get the kick-starter tube out of the way by inserting
a screwdriver or something and then tape it down.
Makes it easier to handle that 12mm spanner.
Image

( As an alternative, on the kick-start models, you can do as one of our members "guy plain"
who explains:
".. I use the kick starter to turn over my engine to do the tuning. I put the bike on the center stand and roll it over..
...if i go to far i put the bike in gear and use the back tire to bump the makes into place..
.seems to work for me and no risk of loosing off the alt bolt
...")



Now back to work:

For adjusting cylinder 3/4 ignition:

..connect a test-light from
the junction of the BLUE (collar'ed) wire
to the engine case/or some other 'ground'

Image


...turn ON ignition

...using the 12mm spanner, turn the generator bolt
clockwise till the F 2 (that's TWO !) mark
aligns with the marks on each side of the hole:

Image


..this is the EXACT point where the test-light should come on.
Probably doesn't.

So loosen the screws that holds the Dyna-plate:

Image


...turn the plate

Image

till the light come on, and tighten the screws

Moving it clockwise will give an earlier ignition
Moving it anti-clockwise will give a later ignition.

BTW you might have to loosen this tiny screw:
Image
so the small wires can move,
to enable the Dyna-plate to rotate enough to get you to the
right position.
Please remember to tighten it again.


To check:

Now rotate the engine BACKWARDS using the 12mm spanner
((*)careful! you don't want to loosen the bolt. Please see note at the end of this post)
moving backwards past the F2 mark
and then FOREWARDS to the F2 mark
to make sure the
light-on / F2 mark alignment is SPOT ON !!!

...probably isn't.
The mere tightening of the screws will have moved the
plate ever so slightly.
So do the whole thing over again till it's there.
Chances are you'll have to do it several times.

(Don't forget to turn the ignition OFF, in between you're testing)





To adjust cylinder 1/2 ignition

..unplug the test-light
and insert it into the junction with the YELLOW (collar'ed) wire :

Image

..turn ON ignition

...using the 12mm spanner, turn the generator bolt
clockwise till the F 1 (that's ONE !) mark
aligns with the marks on each side of the hole:

Image


..this is the EXACT point where the test-light should come on.
Probably doesn't.

So loosen these two small allen-screws that holds the right-side module

Image
Image



...and turn the right-side module

Image

till the light come on, and tighten the screws.

To check:

Now rotate the engine BACKWARDS using the 12mm spanner
((*)careful! you don't want to loosen the bolt. Please see note at the end of this post)
moving backwards past the F1 mark
and then FOREWARDS to the F1 mark
to make sure the
light-on / F1 mark alignment is SPOT ON !!!

...probably isn't.
The mere tightening of the allen-screws will have moved the
module ever so slightly.
So do the whole thing over again till it's there.
Chances are you'll have to do it several times.


Recheck everything, and do note that if you
re-adjust the 3/4 cylinder ignition (moving the whole Dyna-plate)
you will thereby move the cylinder 1/2 ignition (right-side module)
and you will have to re-adjust that one as well.


That's it. Have fun!
.-)


(*) PLEASE understand that the
'turn it backwards' procedure is a DYNA recommendation.
It really isn't such a good idea.
Our friend Randakk has pointed the attention to the danger of doing so
and on his web-site he point to exactly what can happen:
Click
(at the very end of the "Diesel Clatter" section)
I quote from that section:

"....Here's one more possibility brought to my attention recently by Arthur Osterholtz:

"Hi..I recently purchased a 1979 Gold Wing with a rattle in the engine at idle that went away when revved up. It was not the primary drive chain. Turns out the 12 mm bolt on the end of alternator rotor that you use to turn engine when setting points was loose. Apparently someone turned it backwards and loosened the bolt in so doing. A good thing to check if someone has a rattle in engine..Arthur"

Thanks to Randakk for pointing that out.

So again: be real careful, check the bolt when you've finished
setting the ignition.
...or work a tiny bit harder; and turn it a full revolution each time
instead of backwards (and then forwards)






PS:
Several member have experienced the same problem
as this member, who surgests a solution to the problem:
dryoung wrote:I put a Dyna ignition in my ’77 wing last winter.
I had [..snip..] problem [..snip..] of not being able to get the 1-2 sensor dead on.
Because I was starting the install from scratch so to speak,
I could see where the 3-4 sensor could be moved on the plate.
By loosing a small screw the back of the plate
and the allen screw on the front of the .plate
I could move the 3-4 sensor a bit counter clockwise.
Then I retimed 3-4 using the whole plate as the
instructions say to do. This helped give me some room
to get 1-2 much closer but still not perfect.
The factory had ground out a small clearance
slot on the bottom of the 1-2 sensor to make
some room for the screw and washer that locks
the plate down. At this point I used a Dremel
with a cutoff wheel and very carefully made
the factory slot just a bit longer.
With this slot extended just a bit, I was then
able move the 1-2 sensor enough to get
both 3-4 and 1-2 dead on.

I guess I was just not willing to compromise on the ignition!
Last edited by octane on Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:32 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Post #2 by Batman7349 » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:49 am

Excellent job as always. I really like the High Tech test lite. Available at your local super store for .59 plus a little solder.. respekt2
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Post #3 by Zryder » Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:51 pm

Much apreciated Octane , outstanding work as always . ( Z )
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Post #4 by Sandy Eggo » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:08 pm

Thanks, Octane!
You make it look easy!
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Post #5 by LesTension » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:36 pm

Octane... You rule! I've been searching the posts and finally you've come to the rescue,(as usual)!

Can't wait to try timing tommorrow.

Thanks,
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Post #6 by Strawb » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:55 pm

hi octane .... you da man ....... you make it look so easy ..... thats hard technical knitty gritty stuff there
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Post #7 by dagersh » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:15 pm

Awesome tips octane. I can't wait to try out all your tips an my bikes!

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Post #8 by UniCacher » Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:51 am

Is the Dyna ignition affected by the split timing that affects the stock points? I'm thinking seriously about switching over at some point as tuning those buggers is killing me!

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Post #9 by mmstingray » Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:18 am

Here's another embarrassing question:

When I tried this the other day, the test light wouldn't light, I was cranking the engine by hand with the kick starter. When I tried doing it with the electric starter, the light lit. Is there some sort of jumping I need to do that occurs with the electric starter?

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Post #10 by Whiskerfish » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:09 am

UniCacher wrote:Is the Dyna ignition affected by the split timing that affects the stock points? I'm thinking seriously about switching over at some point as tuning those buggers is killing me!


The short answer is NO. The dyna is not effected by split timing. I do not know why but on my 1000 the split timing was getting to be a problem with a split of 3/4". With the dyna setup there is zero split. I checked it several times and it is dead on for every rotation?? Someone with a bit more brain power than me is gonna have to explain why.
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Post #11 by Whiskerfish » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:10 am

mmstingray wrote:Here's another embarrassing question:

When I tried this the other day, the test light wouldn't light, I was cranking the engine by hand with the kick starter. When I tried doing it with the electric starter, the light lit. Is there some sort of jumping I need to do that occurs with the electric starter?


Did you have the key on??
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Post #12 by mmstingray » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:14 am

I did indeed, Whiskerfish. But I will admit the first time I tried it, I didn't *blush*

I will also add that I'm using a brake light bulb (two filaments), if it matters. I have the ground lead going across both contacts.

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Post #13 by Whiskerfish » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:23 am

Then I am stumped. Key on and Kill switch to run the light should illuminate just like when it is being operated by the starter. Can you start your bike with the kicker?
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Post #14 by mmstingray » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:45 am

I've yet to actually try to start it with the kickstarter for as long as i've owned it (almost three years now), and I suppose I should get in the habit of trying that.

Right now, it's still in winterized mode as I'm waiting for my mercury stick to arrive. In the meantime I figured I'd adjust the valves and time it. I'll give it aother shot this weekend.

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Post #15 by octane » Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:31 am

Whiskerfish wrote:...

The short answer is NO. The dyna is not effected by split timing. I do not know why but on my 1000 the split timing was getting to be a problem with a split of 3/4". With the dyna setup there is zero split. I checked it several times and it is dead on for every rotation?? Someone with a bit more brain power than me is gonna have to explain why.

Let me try.

To quote Robert Overby:
"..the camshaft was actually moving a little within
its bearing, causing the inconsistency in the timing of
Cylinders 1 and 2, but not the causing inconsistency
in the timing of Cylinders 3 and 4. I verified this by
putting a dial indicator on the camshaft.
The movement, however slight (perhaps two or three
hundredths of a millimeter), was significant enough
to change the opening time of the points
...

now that's kind of easy to understand;
movement of the cam in the direction of the points-'tab'
will alter the time the points open (time of ignition)
where as in the case of the DYNA there is
NO actual physical contact between the DYNA-'trigger'
(now placed on the cam-shaft, but does not have a 'cam')
and the DYNA-'receiver'.
So the movement of the cam-shaft in the 'side-ways'
direction does not alter the time the 'trigger'
triggers the receiver and so there is no
(or extremely little) inconsistency in the timing.




BTW
To explain what happens in the points set-up
to cause the movement of the (cam)shaft
Overby further explains:
"..I think the cause of this is when certain of the valves
are open, different valve spring pressure are applied
through the rocker arms to the camshaft, causing
slight movement of the camshaft
....."


My guess is that the problem gets worse with age
as the shaft and bearings are worn more and more,
making 'room' for more unwanted shaft movement.
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