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Another one of those stupid high idle problems
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- Tin Member
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- Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 11:23 am
Another one of those stupid high idle problems
Hey all,
A few weeks ago I went and bought a '77 GL1000 that had been somewhat abused by the previous owner (he rattlecanned the whole bike, even the carbs and front forks). The intention is, fix it up and get it mechanically sound for a friend of mine who's getting out of the military in a month or so, so he can have a project bike that doesnt need serious mechanical work. I stripped most of the butt ugly paint off, rebuilt every part of the brakes, and just finished rebuilding the carbs with Randakk's kit, and even followed along with his DVD. The only exception is that I didnt have any of the screens that go under the float needle seat, so those are missing.
The problem is, after sitting at the PO's farm for 2 years with gas in the bowls, it developed a condition where it wont come down from 3k rpm to idle at 1k. I figured it was any combination of plugged idle jets/stuck slides/bad sync. However, after the carb rebuild and bench sync (the idle jets were plugged and the #2 slide did stick), it still has this problem. Neither the throttle or choke is sticking when its idling high, When I do trick it into idling at 1k, it runs much smoother, and it is much easier to duplicate the problem after the carb rebuild. From some googling, I can see that this is a somewhat common problem, but I cant find many solutions to it.
What I do to replicate the problem is this:
when it's idling at 1k, give it any throttle, even a tiny smidge, and it will climb to 3k and stay there. If I adjust the idle speed screw down, I can trick it into dropping down to 1k, put I have to quickly adjust back up a turn or so after it drops to keep if from dying. I will upload a video of the problem when I can.
Heres what Ive done and checked:
adjusted valve lash to .004
Tested compression, all cylinders were within a pound or two of 152psi
adjusted floats to 21mm
set idle mix screws to 2.5 turns out
cleaned and rebuilt carbs with randakks kit
polished slide bores so they all slide smoothly with no binding
all jets are correct stock sizes
rebuilt and vacuum checked air cutoff valve
bench synced throttle plates
replaced fuel filter and air filter
adjusted throttle and choke cables to work correctly (neither the throttle or choke is sticking when its idling high)
Checked the inside of the intake boots for cracks, didnt see any
My manometer doesnt arrive until tomorrow, so I havent vacuum synced it yet, but it runs very smooth and I suspect the carbs are very close to synced.
Tonight, Ill check the ignition timing. I popped off the timing cover to take a peek and it already has a dyna /s installed. Im thinking it could be the advance sticking, but I cant find any info on how a sticking advance acts. Other than that, Ive checked everything else I can think of. Do you guys have any ideas on what this problem could be?
A few weeks ago I went and bought a '77 GL1000 that had been somewhat abused by the previous owner (he rattlecanned the whole bike, even the carbs and front forks). The intention is, fix it up and get it mechanically sound for a friend of mine who's getting out of the military in a month or so, so he can have a project bike that doesnt need serious mechanical work. I stripped most of the butt ugly paint off, rebuilt every part of the brakes, and just finished rebuilding the carbs with Randakk's kit, and even followed along with his DVD. The only exception is that I didnt have any of the screens that go under the float needle seat, so those are missing.
The problem is, after sitting at the PO's farm for 2 years with gas in the bowls, it developed a condition where it wont come down from 3k rpm to idle at 1k. I figured it was any combination of plugged idle jets/stuck slides/bad sync. However, after the carb rebuild and bench sync (the idle jets were plugged and the #2 slide did stick), it still has this problem. Neither the throttle or choke is sticking when its idling high, When I do trick it into idling at 1k, it runs much smoother, and it is much easier to duplicate the problem after the carb rebuild. From some googling, I can see that this is a somewhat common problem, but I cant find many solutions to it.
What I do to replicate the problem is this:
when it's idling at 1k, give it any throttle, even a tiny smidge, and it will climb to 3k and stay there. If I adjust the idle speed screw down, I can trick it into dropping down to 1k, put I have to quickly adjust back up a turn or so after it drops to keep if from dying. I will upload a video of the problem when I can.
Heres what Ive done and checked:
adjusted valve lash to .004
Tested compression, all cylinders were within a pound or two of 152psi
adjusted floats to 21mm
set idle mix screws to 2.5 turns out
cleaned and rebuilt carbs with randakks kit
polished slide bores so they all slide smoothly with no binding
all jets are correct stock sizes
rebuilt and vacuum checked air cutoff valve
bench synced throttle plates
replaced fuel filter and air filter
adjusted throttle and choke cables to work correctly (neither the throttle or choke is sticking when its idling high)
Checked the inside of the intake boots for cracks, didnt see any
My manometer doesnt arrive until tomorrow, so I havent vacuum synced it yet, but it runs very smooth and I suspect the carbs are very close to synced.
Tonight, Ill check the ignition timing. I popped off the timing cover to take a peek and it already has a dyna /s installed. Im thinking it could be the advance sticking, but I cant find any info on how a sticking advance acts. Other than that, Ive checked everything else I can think of. Do you guys have any ideas on what this problem could be?
Loud pipes save lives
Bikes:
'77 GL1000 (current project)
'80 CX500 (last year's project)
'86 XR250R
Bikes:
'77 GL1000 (current project)
'80 CX500 (last year's project)
'86 XR250R
- CYBORG
- Moderator
- Posts: 24777
- Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:52 pm
- Location: Muskegon mich
Re: Another one of those stupid high idle problems
Check all your cab connections to the head for air leaks. As well as tighten the clamps on the intake pipes
By the way, you make the statement "loud pipes save lives". Can yohu explain how that works?
By the way, you make the statement "loud pipes save lives". Can yohu explain how that works?
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
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- Tin Member
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 11:23 am
Re: Another one of those stupid high idle problems
Well, its mostly a joke, it lets me pick the old timers out of the crowd. However I will say that around here at least, people are less likely to try to merge right into me if they hear me next to them. People around here rarely use their blinkers or check lanes before they merge.
speaking of which, I havent put any mufflers on the GL since I got it, and its downright painful in the ears to test drive at the moment. By "loud pipes" I dont mean straightpipes, thats just too far.
Thanks for the tip, I vacuum tested the thing before I rebuilt the carbs and didnt find anything, but I didnt have a chance to last night, as I got it running around midnight and didnt want to piss off the neighbors too much.
speaking of which, I havent put any mufflers on the GL since I got it, and its downright painful in the ears to test drive at the moment. By "loud pipes" I dont mean straightpipes, thats just too far.
Thanks for the tip, I vacuum tested the thing before I rebuilt the carbs and didnt find anything, but I didnt have a chance to last night, as I got it running around midnight and didnt want to piss off the neighbors too much.
Loud pipes save lives
Bikes:
'77 GL1000 (current project)
'80 CX500 (last year's project)
'86 XR250R
Bikes:
'77 GL1000 (current project)
'80 CX500 (last year's project)
'86 XR250R
-
- Tin Member
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 11:23 am
Re: Another one of those stupid high idle problems
I got a video of the problem. Ignore the smoke, its just the degreaser steaming off the headers.
Loud pipes save lives
Bikes:
'77 GL1000 (current project)
'80 CX500 (last year's project)
'86 XR250R
Bikes:
'77 GL1000 (current project)
'80 CX500 (last year's project)
'86 XR250R
- RB
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 4268
- Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:26 am
- Location: AZ
Re: Another one of those stupid high idle problems
I bet it's the throttle cable..easiest "for sure" test is the disconnect them at the carbs and then pop the carbs by hand and see if it still races..without doing anything else. you could try opening up the right hand switch and squirting some solvent into the cables work it for a bit and see if it changes anything..other possibles is the main carb spring is hooked up incorrectly, some grit got into the slides or the above mentioned leak.
98 1500 SE..
99 1500 SE SOLD
97 SE 1500 SOLD
83 SOLD
82 REBUILT sold!!!
81 DAILY RIDER sold her ((!
81 REBUILT SOLD!!!
81 REBUILT SOLD!!
80 REBUILT SOLD
79 IN BASKET PARTS FOR SALE
79 CLEANED UP AND SOLD
78 REBUILT SOLD
77 REBUILT SOLD
76 SOLD/PARTIAL REBUILD
76 REBUILT AND SOLD
75 REBUILT SOLD
75 REBUILT SOLD
75 REBUILD SOLD
FAIR WINDS,
RB
99 1500 SE SOLD
97 SE 1500 SOLD
83 SOLD
82 REBUILT sold!!!
81 DAILY RIDER sold her ((!
81 REBUILT SOLD!!!
81 REBUILT SOLD!!
80 REBUILT SOLD
79 IN BASKET PARTS FOR SALE
79 CLEANED UP AND SOLD
78 REBUILT SOLD
77 REBUILT SOLD
76 SOLD/PARTIAL REBUILD
76 REBUILT AND SOLD
75 REBUILT SOLD
75 REBUILT SOLD
75 REBUILD SOLD
FAIR WINDS,
RB
- Whiskerfish
- President
- Posts: 37609
- Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:34 pm
- My Album: http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/whiskerfish/
- Location: Norfolk Va
Re: Another one of those stupid high idle problems
Yea the first thing is the cables. With the bike off twist the throttle wide open and release. There should be an audible snap as the bellcrank on the Carbs hits the idle screw. If that is not happening every time (try with the handlebars lock to lock left and right) then you are wasting your time chasing anything else.
After that vacuum leaks then sych are the most common culprits.
After that vacuum leaks then sych are the most common culprits.
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
"Yea I do dance awkwardly, and I am having more fun than you" Taylor Swift
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1984 GL1200 Standard
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
"Yea I do dance awkwardly, and I am having more fun than you" Taylor Swift
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1984 GL1200 Standard
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
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- Tin Member
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 11:23 am
Re: Another one of those stupid high idle problems
I did some testing last night, and I can rule out the cables. It does the same thing with the cables disconnected. As for the audible snap, Ive got that too. I checked for vacuum leaks with an unlit propane torch, and got nothing. I did discover that by pressing down hard on the sync adjustment screws I was able to slow the idle down, but I think this is just accomplishing the same thing as backing off the idle screw and not actually caused by play in the adjuster. My manometer should arrive today, so Ill vacuum sync them and see if that makes a difference.
Loud pipes save lives
Bikes:
'77 GL1000 (current project)
'80 CX500 (last year's project)
'86 XR250R
Bikes:
'77 GL1000 (current project)
'80 CX500 (last year's project)
'86 XR250R
- robin1731
- Membership Admin
- Posts: 21819
- Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 8:31 am
- Location: Decatur, Indiana
Re: Another one of those stupid high idle problems
That's common. Even when perfect you can do that. One reason you need to be careful while syncing the carbs and remove the tool after each adjustment.TheBirdman wrote:snip.................... I did discover that by pressing down hard on the sync adjustment screws I was able to slow the idle down,.
.
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
- BlueThunder
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1619
- Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:39 pm
- Location: Sarasota, Florida
Re: Another one of those stupid high idle problems
Okay, my "funky" idle problem was traced to the throttle grip being too tight against the end of the handlebar. Moving the throttle grip outward by 1/8" cured the problem.
And yes, I nominate this to be the dumbest thing creating a problem on a bike!
And yes, I nominate this to be the dumbest thing creating a problem on a bike!
...Brian
2014 CTX1300 Deluxe - BlackThunder aka Predator
1977 GL1000 - Ox
2014 CTX1300 Deluxe - BlackThunder aka Predator
1977 GL1000 - Ox
- Whiskerfish
- President
- Posts: 37609
- Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:34 pm
- My Album: http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/whiskerfish/
- Location: Norfolk Va
Re: Another one of those stupid high idle problems
Not even close.BlueThunder wrote:SNIP
And yes, I nominate this to be the dumbest thing creating a problem on a bike!
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
"Yea I do dance awkwardly, and I am having more fun than you" Taylor Swift
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1984 GL1200 Standard
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
"Yea I do dance awkwardly, and I am having more fun than you" Taylor Swift
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1984 GL1200 Standard
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
- robin1731
- Membership Admin
- Posts: 21819
- Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 8:31 am
- Location: Decatur, Indiana
Re: Another one of those stupid high idle problems
Whiskerfish wrote:Not even close.BlueThunder wrote:SNIP
And yes, I nominate this to be the dumbest thing creating a problem on a bike!
Nope.
.
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
-
- Tin Member
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 11:23 am
Re: Another one of those stupid high idle problems
Well, the sync was pretty badly off, but I got it more or less synced now. I also tightened down the intake clamps after they were warm. Neither fixed the high idle problem, but while adjusting the linkages, sometimes I could rev it a little without it going up to 3k, and sometimes it would only stick at 2k.
Another few things I noticed was
1: it acted pretty erratic while adjusting. For example I would get 2 and 4 matched up pretty well, tighten the nut down (only a quarter turn or so), start it up again, and 2 and 4 would be waaaay out of sync. Likewise, sometimes I could turn the screw between 1 and 3 an entire turn and nothing would happen, and other times it reacted exactly how one would expect it to.
2: usually when it starts surging, carb 1 starts pulling far more suction and 3 pulls way less.
3: towards the end, either cylinder 2 or 4 started knocking and blowing flames out the header pipe pretty often.
Tomorrow I will pop the tops off and polish the slides some more, since thats what some of the symptoms look like to me. The linkages look alright, but does anyone have a picture of where the washers on them are supposed to be, so I can see if they are correct?
Another few things I noticed was
1: it acted pretty erratic while adjusting. For example I would get 2 and 4 matched up pretty well, tighten the nut down (only a quarter turn or so), start it up again, and 2 and 4 would be waaaay out of sync. Likewise, sometimes I could turn the screw between 1 and 3 an entire turn and nothing would happen, and other times it reacted exactly how one would expect it to.
2: usually when it starts surging, carb 1 starts pulling far more suction and 3 pulls way less.
3: towards the end, either cylinder 2 or 4 started knocking and blowing flames out the header pipe pretty often.
Tomorrow I will pop the tops off and polish the slides some more, since thats what some of the symptoms look like to me. The linkages look alright, but does anyone have a picture of where the washers on them are supposed to be, so I can see if they are correct?
Last edited by TheBirdman on Thu May 26, 2016 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Loud pipes save lives
Bikes:
'77 GL1000 (current project)
'80 CX500 (last year's project)
'86 XR250R
Bikes:
'77 GL1000 (current project)
'80 CX500 (last year's project)
'86 XR250R
-
- Tin Member
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 11:23 am
Re: Another one of those stupid high idle problems
More than a couple times, Ive been the dumbest thing creating problems on a bikeBlueThunder wrote:
And yes, I nominate this to be the dumbest thing creating a problem on a bike!
Loud pipes save lives
Bikes:
'77 GL1000 (current project)
'80 CX500 (last year's project)
'86 XR250R
Bikes:
'77 GL1000 (current project)
'80 CX500 (last year's project)
'86 XR250R
- Whiskerfish
- President
- Posts: 37609
- Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:34 pm
- My Album: http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/v/wingmans/whiskerfish/
- Location: Norfolk Va
Re: Another one of those stupid high idle problems
Look here:TheBirdman wrote:SNIP does anyone have a picture of where the washers on them are supposed to be, so I can see if they are correct?
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 422#p27422
.
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
"Yea I do dance awkwardly, and I am having more fun than you" Taylor Swift
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1984 GL1200 Standard
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
"Yea I do dance awkwardly, and I am having more fun than you" Taylor Swift
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1984 GL1200 Standard
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
-
- Tin Member
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 11:23 am
Re: Another one of those stupid high idle problems
hhhmmm, I decided to check the slide springs according to the first part of that post, and all 4 of them just bottom out. Would that cause an issue?
Loud pipes save lives
Bikes:
'77 GL1000 (current project)
'80 CX500 (last year's project)
'86 XR250R
Bikes:
'77 GL1000 (current project)
'80 CX500 (last year's project)
'86 XR250R
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