FINALLY !! Carb problem solved

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maury
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FINALLY !! Carb problem solved

#1

Post by maury »

I have had several entries here in "tech discussions" over the last few months in regards to problems with getting an idling issue resolved.
Basic problem - set idle at 1,000. After engine gets to operating temperature (hot) the idle will rise to about 2,500 and stay there. If throttled up, would return to 2,500. Playing with idle screw was no help even after lowering to 1,000, the first time revved up, it would settle to 2,500.
New ignition, new plugs, new belts, new plug wires, Randakk wheel for dynamic timing, etc, etc.
I rebuilt using Randakk kit / video. Took apart 3 times the last time using a professional ultrasonic. Those carbs were CLEAN and polished. Yet the problem remained. I read and read about what I have termed the 'Mysterious Honda High Idle Problem". Many on this site gave me ideas, suggestions. I pursued them all. You know.... the vacuum leak, timing off, timing belts misaligned, mechanical advance sticking, etc, etc, etc. Nothing changed a thing.

What I finally did after MUCH frustration is send them off to Pistol Pete's shop. I figured this is the first set I've attempted and I need his eyes and experience on those babies !!

He did not rebuild them (no need) but did tweek on butterflies and a couple of things. Putting them back on the bike.....the idle was smoother for sure but ...... guess what......same high idle began to appear as engine got to full operating temperature. Pistol Pete called and walked me through a couple of checks. And.... with an adjustment that took a screwdriver and about 5 seconds.......... HE SOLVED THE ISSUE !!! I would have never discovered what he had me do and his experience was the key. Anyway if anyone ever has this happen, contact me and I'll walk you through it the same he did me (has to do with bending a very specific area on the sync screw setup).

Anyway...... I'm very grateful for Pistol Pete (and Moose) for helping me out.
75 GL1000
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TNTbefree
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Re: FINALLY !! Carb problem solved

#2

Post by TNTbefree »

Glad to hear your issue is solved. Never chimed in on your topic, but I kept an eye on it. Kind of odd... Pistol Pete states "Each Carburetor set is engine synchronized and perfectly balanced on a test engine". And if he did so, why didn't he have the same issue with the carbs at his shop, as you did on your bike? Who knows? Problem solved. That's what matters.
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77Gowing
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Re: FINALLY !! Carb problem solved

#3

Post by 77Gowing »

maury wrote:Pistol Pete called and walked me through a couple of checks. And.... with an adjustment that took a screwdriver and about 5 seconds.......... HE SOLVED THE ISSUE !!! (has to do with bending a very specific area on the sync screw setup).
OK can you be a little more specific on what exactly was the problem and what exactly was done to solve it?
You know, Cause and effect explanation. I want to learn what I can do if the same thing happens to me.
I'm sure other enquiring minds would like to know as well.

Thanks,
"Less is More" Anonymous

77Gowing
1977 GL1000 "O'le Blue." (sold :crying)
2014 Yamaha 950 V Star (sold)
2017 Indian Scout Std w/ABS (sold)
2009 Honda VTX1300R "Me Brudder's" (sold)
1984 Honda Interstate "84' 2outa4." Gone
1982 Honda GL1100 "After thought." Gone
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gltriker
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Re: FINALLY !! Carb problem solved

#4

Post by gltriker »

77Gowing wrote:
maury wrote:Pistol Pete called and walked me through a couple of checks. And.... with an adjustment that took a screwdriver and about 5 seconds.......... HE SOLVED THE ISSUE !!! (has to do with bending a very specific area on the sync screw setup).


OK can you be a little more specific on what exactly was the problem and what exactly was done to solve it?
You know, Cause and effect explanation. I want to learn what I can do if the same thing happens to me.
I'm sure other enquiring minds would like to know as well.
Me too action1
Last edited by gltriker on Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:20 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

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RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
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1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
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salukispeed
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Re: FINALLY !! Carb problem solved

#5

Post by salukispeed »

Awesome to hear. It is amazing what experience can bring to odd conditions. Even tho they sync them on an engine it would be very difficult to exactly duplicate every facet of a test drive and heat soak from traffic and such. Well done, Congratz
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maury
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Re: FINALLY !! Carb problem solved

#6

Post by maury »

77Gowing wrote:
maury wrote:Pistol Pete called and walked me through a couple of checks. And.... with an adjustment that took a screwdriver and about 5 seconds.......... HE SOLVED THE ISSUE !!! (has to do with bending a very specific area on the sync screw setup).
OK can you be a little more specific on what exactly was the problem and what exactly was done to solve it?
You know, Cause and effect explanation. I want to learn what I can do if the same thing happens to me.
I'm sure other enquiring minds would like to know as well.

Thanks,
The problem was described (I believe) in detail in the first post. Basically...... high idle once bike achieved normal operating temperature (fan cycling).
Pistol Pete first asked if the idle changed when pushing down directly on any of the sync assembly screws. It did, the idle went from 2,500 to 1,000. When I let the pressure off the sync screw top - idle climbed right back up to 2,500. So this is what he had me do....... take a screwdriver, rest it against the side of the carb (just below the vacuum cap) then VERY slightly bend out the upper arm of the "C" shaped tab on the carb sync screw/assembly (See pictures below). If you're not familiar with the sync assembly there is the top tab that the screw passes through with the lock nut on top of it, then below that a spring (with washers in proper position) and the lower tab that is actually shaped like a "C". Do NOT pry on the top tab with the screw going through it, ONLY the bottom "C" shaped tab. When I first did pry on the tab, I could see it flex slightly and I stopped. The idle did not drop from 2,500. At the suggestion of Pete, I again applied a bit more pressure, could see the tab flex again ..... and then...... MAGIC action1 !!!!!!!!! Idle dropped to 1,000 and when throttled up............dropped perfectly to 1,000.
The sequence he had me use (if I needed to do more was).......
First - Carbs # 2, 4 sync assembly (between carbs # 2 and 4)
Second - Carbs # 1, 3 sync assembly (between carbs # 1 and 3)
Third - Sync assembly that adjusts right side carbs to left side (to the outer side of carb # 4)

I did not have to touch the second and third above at all.

I felt for a long time that there was a binding/sticking somewhere but did not feel, see or know where it might be. My guess is that as the engine heats up the heat causes a slight expansion of the butterflies or sync assembly and then at the sync assembly there is a very slight bind/friction. All I really know is that it worked and I'm thankful after chasing the "Mysterious Honda High Idle" for months.
carb1.jpg
carb1.jpg (34.44 KiB) Viewed 861 times
carb2.jpg
carb2.jpg (43 KiB) Viewed 861 times
75 GL1000
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ericheath
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Re: FINALLY !! Carb problem solved

#7

Post by ericheath »

Interesting. With my experiment using V65 carbs on a 1200 air box, I had to bend the sync tabs as well to get an idle low enough.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
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77Gowing
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Re: FINALLY !! Carb problem solved

#8

Post by 77Gowing »

Thanks Maury,

That was exactly the detail I was looking for and thanks for the pics. I am ignorant about the carbs on my bike but will get the Randak video so I can learn about them so this will probably help me some day. Sorry if I sounded critical, but I really wasn't busting your chops. Great Job!
"Less is More" Anonymous

77Gowing
1977 GL1000 "O'le Blue." (sold :crying)
2014 Yamaha 950 V Star (sold)
2017 Indian Scout Std w/ABS (sold)
2009 Honda VTX1300R "Me Brudder's" (sold)
1984 Honda Interstate "84' 2outa4." Gone
1982 Honda GL1100 "After thought." Gone
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