Puch 250 SGS

[Dr. Frankenstein]

Here's that 1967 Puch 250 SGS I brought home the other day - I found it up against the outside of an old outbuilding in Manassas, Virginia. The guy I bought it from for $50 said it'd probably been there for 20 years, but believe it or not it's actually in pretty good shape! Rust doesn't scare me anymore.
Puch Barn Find by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

We had to drag it out of it's nest with a gator; the rear wheel doesn't turn - I think it's in gear - and the clutch lever doesn't work, but we eventually got it loaded onto the truck and I got it home.
DSCN2060 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr
DSCN2059 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

And it has a Key! Yay! (That black switch-looking thingy in the headlight). It's rusted in - lots of PB Blaster there...but it has a key!
DSCN2067 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

It still has the original battery in it -
DSCN2064 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

...although it was somebody's Home Sweet Home for some time!
DSCN2071 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

I was happy to see the electrics were in pretty good shape - a bit 'iffy', but doable...needs a little refurbishment though...
DSCN2070 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

It still has the original tail light...
DSCN2066 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

...and I was glad to see the air filter/choke, headers and plugs were still in place.
DSCN2061 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

The carb's still decent - that big round air filter (pricy) may be Done though...
DSCN2068 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

No baffles in the exhaust - that's a bummer, but common enough. Unfortunately people often took them out to give the little 250 a 'bigger' sound...they're hard to find nowadays.
DSCN2065 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

The rims are toast, though...:/ This is the front, and the rear is just as bad if not worse.
DSCN2062 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

Overall not bad though - here's the runner I have, but don't let appearances fool you - she's got a redone bore and new pistons, upgraded the coils to a single unit, new wiring throughout and runs great. I rather liked the patina though so I kept it; and it did Not look like this when I got it!
DSCN2057 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

I ostensibly got this newest one ($50!) for a parts bike, but knowing me I have a feeling I'll be stripping this one down and giving it a total makeover -new paint, tank (thankfully I had a spare from the rideable one that came with a parts bike), seat, etc. I even have the repair manual!

It's an interesting little bike; it was originally made in Austria and sold through the Sears and Roebuck catalog (remember those?) for about $500.There's not much to the internals - six gears, two spindles and the crank. This is the parts engine I had that I opened just to see how it was put together - big 'ole rust burger there, but it cleaned up nicely.
Puch 250 Engine Innards by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr
Simple Teutonic engineering, and they're overbuilt, so they stay pretty structurally strong. And it's a 2-stroke - No Valves! Freaked me out.

Anyway - I thought all you gearheads out there would find it interesting.

[flyin900]

I have never heard of it until now. I just looked it up and it seems Sears Roebuck were the US distributors. A unique 2 stroke design. You answered my next question as Austria was the COO. So there’s more than just Vienna tort to those Austrians.

[Dr. Frankenstein]

If you come across one, Matt Quirk out at Motorwest in Wisconsin is THEE Go-To for Puch parts. He stocks everything you can think of to restore these bikes, and his prices are great. He's very personable and will answer any questions you may have about them.
https://www.motorwestmotorcycles.com/

If you look, you can still find these 250's, and 175's around on Craigslist, usually gathering dust or somebody using them for an ornament or static display. The older 250's and 175's (late 50's - early Sixties) have a tear-drop tank, looks very cool. Very simple electrics too: six wires, that's it! It's a 2-stroke, so it sounds like a weedwhacker on steroids but pulls surprisingly well. If you look at the tank you'll see the two separate caps, one for gas the other for oil. Until it gets warmed up they emit a charming very Puch-esque exhaust trail. It's one of their traits and nothing to worry about. If you come across one, snatch it up, they're getting rarer by the day. For search purposes, it's also known as the Sears Allstate or Puch Twingle, because it has two pistons in one single head. Bonus if it still has the baffles, they do tend to help tone down the "BRAAAAP"! . There was a Puch forum online I belong to, but it appears to have gone dark.

Shoot, as of this writing (11/27/2021) here's a 1965 175 w/ title for sale in Pittsburgh for $800: (Negotiate! Simple fix.)
https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/mpo/d ... 77217.html

[Lucien Harpress]

Really cool stuff. The look of bikes from the late 60s is really starting to grow on me- I need another bike like I need a hole in the head, but Honda Dreams that aren't that far gone aren't that expensive...

Thanks for showing it off!

[dontwantapickle]

$50. Sweet!

[Dr. Frankenstein]

Yes, the Dreams are nice if you can find one these days that isn't overpriced and you're willing to put in a lot of work. I found this one for $100 that I bought a few years ago and kind of brought back...this one is a '62 that I got just for the tank, a rare no-seam model that only fits the earlier ones, but it was in such nice shape internally that I had to restore it(kind of - I couldn't find another seat!)…

Check this out: the same bike, on the same day I was triaging it - this is what made me go for it...pretty ugly, right...?
'62 Honda 305 Rotor and Case by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

And then I took off the other side!
DSCN1064 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

So I decide to take it from this....
From This... by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

To this..
1963 Honda CA77E by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

This 305 ran Great right out of the lab; they sound like big V-twins and pull great, but like a lot of bikes the model years stay pretty specific to themselves. I had another one hanging around the shop that work had stalled on and found I needed a different seat than the one I had so it would fit under the tank, ergo I found this black one but just didn't want to swap out the seat and tank to put on one that would be an incorrect year, so I went to work on it. This one was great, and I wound up selling it but I wish I hadn't. Only two bikes I regret selling, my '78 CX500 and this one.

This one I got for my wife after she had a low-speed crash on my Virago 700; this bike got me into the whole 'Dream' thing ($200 as seen here, btw...)...from this...note the shotgun pipes it came with - same ones that are on the black one. You gotta love Brillo pads!
As I Got It by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

...to this...although she's never ridden it! Just lost the drive, I guess.
DSCN1262 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

But like all old bikes, they have Issues; and the timing chain is Right in the middle of the head, and it's Real Fun to have it *Almost*(!) put back together again and have the chain come off and slide back down into the case...Yah - Good Times! The value of zip ties is underrated...
The 'Spare' Head by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

The white one also has what I believe to be a bent shift shaft - you can't See any imperfections in it, but where it comes through the seal it somehow keeps leaking oil all over the floor, drop by drop. And never when you can see it happening!
It's fun to ride though. I also have a little red CA95 "Baby Dream" that runs pretty well, I just haven't done anything with it lately, and you know how That goes. Pistons for those bikes are hard to find, too.

I *would like to find another one; I was thinking about painting it white and then inviting friends to draw whatever design they wanted on it with different-colored Sharpies and then shooting it with clear, but that's a back-burner kind of thing.

[Dr. Frankenstein]

Lucien, I PM'd you.

[5speed]

amazing work

[gltriker]

I need to see the inside of that cylinder John.
Really puzzled how the ports are oriented!

[Dr. Frankenstein]

This is the spare head I got with the parts bike, to give you an idea of the layout. Believe it or not, a good bath in EvapoRust and a rebore and this is the one on my runner! The original had two deep gouges from some previous piston incident so had to be discarded. Seen here it's upside down, but Note the exhaust ports in the lower-left:
Puch250PartsHead by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

This is parts engine, and even that cleaned up well; but here's the piston layout:
Puch250PartsEngine by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

...and the way the rods are aligned...
Top of Case by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

See the big chunk taken out of the piston skirt...? This caused the gouge in the original head and prompted me to split the case and eventually use that rusty one. I only found traces of the broken one...
Puch 250 piston skirt damage by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

[gltriker]

Thanks, John!

I had already located a very slow motion, side view cut-away animation of this odd 2 stroke engine, colorized for gasses movements.
I recognized the placement of the carburetor on the side of the cylinder front bore would indicate this Puch 250 engine utilized a third port piston timed intake induction design.
Also reckoned the front bore piston cylinder wall had 2 exhausting ports, but the placement of transfer or scavenge ports was not clear. Google searches presented photographs of various manufacturer's cut-away 'twingle' upper ends.
Still not clear.
Eureka!! The bottom view of that rusted cylinder's photograph you posted showed me where those transfer ports openings are located on the cylinders base in relation to the opened crankcase !

Eventually located a group on Facebook ( Motocross Team Peto ) that had posted internal design illustrations, and other visuals of the Puch 250 SGS engine . The 'connecting rod' configuration is very interesting, too.

https://www.facebook.com/10305051803052 ... =3&theater

[Dr. Frankenstein]

Yeah, it's pretty cool, isn't it? Much like a Weed Wacker though it depends on that fuel/oil mix. There's an internal oil pump in there somewhere, I forget exactly where now, but if that goes, so does the engine!

Went out there today to blow out all the crap in the compartments and try to get it off the truck, so I started with the chain - whattya think...? A little EvapoRust and she's good to go, right...??
DSCN2074 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

I wound up just cutting it off. Then turned my attention to the rear wheel thinking it would now turn, but alas No...check that nut out..it has Attitude written all over it...
DSCN2076 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

So I got out my trusty Harbor Freight electric impact wrench! I have yet to meet a stuck nut with that that it cannot get off - a great tool to have for those stubborn problems...note that it spun it off almost instantly. I love that gun. It snapped off the adjuster though - you can see the threads of what's left. Oh Well. I'll handle that problem when it comes up. Good thing I also have another Puch swingarm in the lab.
DSCN2077 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

Did the same in the other side, but still No Joy...
DSCN2078 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

I'm thinking if I get her onto the ramps she might be able to break free from whatever rust is in there and I can at least get her inside; still, shes already coming along. Looks a lot cleaner now.
DSCN2079 by Dr. Frankenstein1, on Flickr

[Paola Zago]

a nice pastime for the winter, a motorcycle like this, at 50 dollars, is impossible to find in Europe, I've seen much worse at 500/700 euros!
the Dream with the molded fork and the rubber knee pads on the tank is a dream of mine, but here they have prices that cannot be afforded. one in the conditions of the one with the drains placed on the ground, costs at least 1500/2000 euros.
Paola (Italy)

[Old Fogey]

Those split singles were very popular at one time over here. Pretty well unbreakable, as you have proved. Hard to find now in the UK and as Paola says, prices in UK/Europe are FAR higher for even rusty relics than in the States.

[flyin900]

Those split singles were very popular at one time over here. Pretty well unbreakable, as you have proved. Hard to find now in the UK and as Paola says, prices in UK/Europe are FAR higher for even rusty relics than in the States.

So it begs the question. Why if these old bikes are worth a small fortune in Britain and the EU; why someone isn't loading containers of these for your shores?
Maybe they are, or the logistics don't make sense, since containers are now really expensive to transport with recent world developments.