Clutch lifter adjust Q?

[Don R]

78 gl1000, 60,000 miles. The 20 year sleeper.
The clutch adjustment is nearly all the way out before it moves the bike, shifting has been clunky and on occasion Neutral is hard to find. Fresh oil change, 15W40 T4 Rotella as before.
I attempted to adjust the lifter per the manual, got the cover off and the lock nut loose but can't get the screw to turn in much past where it was. I found a screwdriver the right length and size, I'm thinking maybe a straight bit in a ratchet would turn it more. Any ideas?? I can't help but wonder if the clutch is just worn out and needs a rebuild.
I just put a gl1000 clutch pack in my cb750 drag bike, so I have an idea how it works.

[NotSoLilCrippseys]

Others more knowledgeable than me will be along soon, I'm sure.

If you're trying to adjust the cable tension for more pull by opening up that cover, I think you're looking in the wrong place.

Here's a thread with a photo, likely from the same manual you're using: viewtopic.php?f=52&t=43643. Most of the adjustment action happens in the second photo.

I don't really think you get more cable adjustment by opening that clutch cable access cover. Have you backed out the threaded barrel at the motor end of your cable? Probably, yes. If you're at the thread limit, you might need a new cable because the old one could be stretched to its service limit.

More specific to the question about the screw, I have a 78 I've been putting back together for a couple months now and just the other day had to pull the cover to access the clutch cable and sort out the loss of any tension at the cable. I share this info because I struggled a bit to turn that screw after loosening the locknut.

I ended up removing the nut, which oddly seemed to make it much easier to turn the screw - with fingers or a driver. (Using the word easy in the context of accessing that area with motor in frame seems a bit cruel, actually.)

My problem was that I had a strange "clunk/snap" sound and lost any return/tension at the lever. Once I got into it, I could tell that something behind the plate was giving way. Until I removed the nut and could freely turn the screw, I was unable to be sure I had set it to spec. Without the nut on the threaded post/screw, I could feel well enough to make the correct adjustments. Then I put the nut on, held the screw with a driver, and locked it down. The clunk/snap/lost tension issue has gone away - for now (ok, for 100 good pulls at the lever).

[gltriker]

just noticed NotSoLilCrippseys had already posted a reply to your dilemma, before I submitted this one.

78 gl1000, 60,000 miles. The 20 year sleeper.
The clutch adjustment is nearly all the way out before it moves the bike, shifting has been clunky and on occasion Neutral is hard to find. Fresh oil change, 15W40 T4 Rotella as before.
I attempted to adjust the lifter per the manual, got the cover off and the lock nut loose but can't get the screw to turn in much past where it was. I found a screwdriver the right length and size, I'm thinking maybe a straight bit in a ratchet would turn it more. Any ideas?? I can't help but wonder if the clutch is just worn out and needs a rebuild.
I just put a gl1000 clutch pack in my cb750 drag bike, so I have an idea how it works.

Yes. Don't!

Although I have only adjusted the clutch lifter free-play on one GL1000 engine, my 1975 trike's engine, I assure you that lifter free play adjuster screw should rotate 'in' and 'out' with little more than index finger and thumb tips' effort.

I believe folks that haven't adjusted a mechanical clutch before, don't realize the adjuster screw needs to be turned 'out' several turns, after - of course - its setting nut is sufficiently loosened. Fingertips.

*No, the Shop Manual doesn't indicate that an initial ' backing out' of the clutch lifter free play adjuster screw is a Best Practice.*

important detail! Be very sure the lifter lever is positioned at, and remains at the extreme counterclockwise end of its normal range of motion while any free play adjustments are being accomplished under the lifter cover. Its exposed clutch lifter lever extension spring is then observed to be completely relaxed.

Then to judiciously turn the adjuster screw 'in' , with fingertips effort only, until there is a detectable stop, a very light resistance to further clockwise screw rotation, is the proper procedure.
Once that detectable stop position is verified, turn the adjuster screw 'out' (ccw) the correct fraction of one rotation.
(considerably Less than 3/4 turn is advised by a certain knowledgeable fellow.) Hold the screw there, and snug its setting nut to the shop manual torque specification.

edit 8/04/2023
3/4 turns out may be best lifter lever free-play adjustment after all is considered. Driver familiarity with clutch lever response to disengagement. Not necessary to fully squeeze the clutch lever to the handgrip. Especially with a non-OEM clutch lever. I broke the clutch cable strands, nearest the clutch lever ferrule, in 2 new clutch cable assemblies, before discovering I was pulling the lever way too far and bending them repeatedly with a Magura clutch (and matched pair brake lever set) that had been installed before I took ownership of the bike.

Details,Details,Details
.
.

Screenshot 2023-08-01 231804 - lifter lever freeplay adjustment .jpg

[redglbx]

Make sure you have the maximum amount of cable slack (loosest) adjusted at the lever adjuster before trying to adjust the lifter arm.

[Don R]

Thanks for the help. I have a Honda gl1000 green service book.
I loosened both cable adjusters and backed the nut off a couple turns and gave it a shot of blaster penetrating oil. I can loosen the nut and back the screw out, but when I go back in it stops about the same number of turns where I started. Could the clutch lifter be at the limit of inward adjustment already? Also, I'm not opposed to a new clutch cable even if it turns out not to be needed. I'll order one now.
All that makes me wonder if my clutch discs are worn beyond the serviceable limit? It is at 60,000 miles.
If it was easier to access, I'd just pop it out and have a look. My 750's are easy by comparison. If I need a new clutch, I notice Genuine Honda discs are hard/impossible to find now. I bought a set off Ebay that turned out to not be genuine stuff. I think I have one new old stock double thick GLtype disc.

[Don R]

double posted somehow.

[dontwantapickle]

OK, I'll try to help.
The adjuster screw has no limit as to how far it can be screwed IN.
It will just start disengaging the clutch.
However, it can only be turned OUT so far.
That adjuster screw is threaded into the lifter cam plate from the inside and is threaded to it's end (obviously).
It is not threaded all of the way and has a little O ring on it to keep the oil from leaking out around it.

The adjuster screw pushes on the pressure plate which splits the plates.
It should be able to screw IN far enough to completely disengage the clutch.

If I had to guess, I'd say that the screw is just stuck in the threads.
You can turn it hard to break it loose without causing any damage to the clutch.
the worst I could see happening is messing up the screw slot by using the wrong bit.

I don't know if my explanation is good enough to understand, so I just went out to the shop and took a couple of pics that show what's going on inside the cover.

This clutch cover is off of a 79. The whole adjuster setup is not that complicated.
You can see that I unscrewed the adjuster screw all the way out so you can get a look at the threads and the little O ring.
Hope this helps.

clutch 1.jpg

clutch2.jpg

clutch3.jpg

clutch4.jpg

[Don R]

Thanks, it's the same as the 750 I have those to study, I doubt it's a stretched cable but I ordered one anyway.
Whatever I figure out, I'll report back.

[robin1731]

Thanks for the help. I have a Honda gl1000 green service book.
I loosened both cable adjusters and backed the nut off a couple turns and gave it a shot of blaster penetrating oil. I can loosen the nut and back the screw out, but when I go back in it stops about the same number of turns where I started. Could the clutch lifter be at the limit of inward adjustment already? Also, I'm not opposed to a new clutch cable even if it turns out not to be needed. I'll order one now.
All that makes me wonder if my clutch discs are worn beyond the serviceable limit? It is at 60,000 miles.
If it was easier to access, I'd just pop it out and have a look. My 750's are easy by comparison. If I need a new clutch, I notice Genuine Honda discs are hard/impossible to find now. I bought a set off Ebay that turned out to not be genuine stuff. I think I have one new old stock double thick GLtype disc.

I'm not sure you are doing it correctly. Yea, loosen the screw after loosening the jam nut. Then turn the screw in lightly until you feel resistance. Then back the screw out 1/2 turn. Is this the way you are doing it? That is the correct way.

[gltriker]

OK, I'll try to help.
The adjuster screw has no limit as to how far it can be screwed IN.
It will just start disengaging the clutch.
However, it can only be turned OUT so far.
That adjuster screw is threaded into the lifter cam plate from the inside and is threaded to it's end (obviously).
It is not threaded all of the way and has a little O ring on it to keep the oil from leaking out around it.

The adjuster screw pushes on the pressure plate which splits the plates.
It should be able to screw IN far enough to completely disengage the clutch.

If I had to guess, I'd say that the screw is just stuck in the threads.
You can turn it hard to break it loose without causing any damage to the clutch.
the worst I could see happening is messing up the screw slot by using the wrong bit.

I don't know if my explanation is good enough to understand, so I just went out to the shop and took a couple of pics that show what's going on inside the cover.

This clutch cover is off of a 79. The whole adjuster setup is not that complicated.
You can see that I unscrewed the adjuster screw all the way out so you can get a look at the threads and the little O ring.
Hope this helps.
clutch 1.jpg
clutch2.jpg
clutch3.jpg
clutch4.jpg

,


EXCELLENT dontwantapickle! Your 4th picture from top is very informative. But I need to view a hidden detail. Please.
Will you take a photo of the opposite side of part#6, "clutch release shaft". I need to see how the hidden side of part#6 is configured to work with the stationary part#7 clutch lifter cam, and those 3 captured clutch release balls positioned between them. I envision its hidden surface is a mirror image of the clutch lifter cam. Maybe yes...Maybe not quite. Thanks.

Screenshot 2023-08-04 134328 - GL1000 CLUTCH COVER ASSEMBLY PARTS BREAKDOWN.jpg

[dontwantapickle]

Here you go.
You can see that part #4 attaches to #6.
when the clutch lever is pulled the cable pulls on the arm #4 causing #6 to rotate.

clutch5.jpg

When #6 rotates, it causes the 3 balls to climb up out of their holes.
Notice the tapered ramps on the depressions.

clutch6.jpg

As the balls climb up the tapers and out of their depressions, they cause part #6 and #7 to separate.
Here's pics of the "throw out bearing" both enacted and disengaged. you can see the "Lift" caused by the balls.

clutch7.jpg

clutch8.jpg

The amount of movement is pretty small. maybe 1/4".
That"s where the adjustment screw comes in. it allows the clearance between the "throw out bearing" and the pressure plate to be adjusted.

Too much clearance and the clutch plates can't separate far enough apart causing the plates to drag.
Too little clearance and the clutch plates are starting to separate causing the clutch to slip.

That's why Robin said to turn the adjuster screw IN until it touches the pressure plate, and then back off just a bit so that it's not continuously riding on the pressure plate.

I hope that this helps, A picture is worth a thousand words...
I am apparently not that good at writing out clear instructions,
I don't think I'll be writing any technical manuals any time soon.

[gltriker]

PERFECT, dontwantapickle !
Your Instructions were Excellent.

Having occasionally read about fellows' struggles with clutch lifter lever free-play adjustments *gone wrong* resulting in no return of hand clutch lever to released position, and snapping sounds I needed to see what components the clutch lifter lever is influencing to actuate inside the clutch cover assembly, itself, and how they interact. And, if 'overadjusted' what might be happening in the balls and opposing cam plates area.

Pictures are INDEED worth a Thousand Words. Thank you very much.

I was looking at the second photo again. I believe the raised weldment must be the anchor for the pin that prevents the fixed cam plate from rotating in the clutch cover . If the ball closest to it passes completely over the raised weldment, and parks on the far side, the now *stuck there* lifter lever's extension coil spring may not have enough potential to pull the clutch lifter lever, clutch cable assembly, and handlebar clutch lever back to a fully disengaged position. wow sticking and snapping sounds are the end results.

Too little lifter lever free-play and squeezing the clutch lever completely tight against the handgrip could likely set up such a stuck and/or snap sound scenario?

Perhaps a suspected non-adjustable to disengage clutch pack could be caused by a worn down overall length of the #8, "clutch adjusting bolt"?

Done now

[dontwantapickle]

I was looking at the second photo again. I believe the raised weldment must be the anchor for the pin that prevents the fixed cam plate from rotating in the clutch cover . If the ball closest to it passes completely over the raised weldment, and parks on the far side, the now *stuck there* lifter lever's extension coil spring may not have enough potential to pull the clutch lifter lever, clutch cable assembly, and handlebar clutch lever back to a fully disengaged position. wow sticking and snapping sounds are the end results.

I just went out and checked again.
The balls never come near that weld bump.
In fact, they don't even come fully out of their depressions, they just roll up those ramps.

I put the assembly together and operated it on the bench to see if I could make it click.
The result... during normal operation, nothing happened.
But... If I really pulled hard on the arm, I could get the assembly to stick, and then it would click when it snapped back into position.

From what I can see, the only thing that could make the "throw out bearing" move far enough out to stick
is the adjuster screw not being set correctly.

IF the adjuster screw is turned OUT far enough that you have to squeeze the lever all the way to the grip to make the clutch disengage. then there is too much clearance between the adjuster screw and the pressure plate.
That would make too much slack in the assembly (the balls have to roll too far out of their depressions) which could cause it to stick and hang open.

The solution would be to turn the adjuster IN to take up that slack and not make the balls have to roll as far up their ramps.
I'm sure that the pressure from the clutch springs pushes the adjuster back out when the clutch lever is released,
and the little spring on the Arm #4 holds it from rattling around.

I have never had it happen, but I could see how it might be possible with things being way out of adjustment.

[gltriker]

This has been very interesting. I really appreciated the photographs of the clutch cover assembly, detailed disassembly.
I doubt I would ever have to adjust trike's clutch lifter lever free-play again though.

[Don R]

Holy smokes, you guys are great, thanks for the understanding.
What I think is happening is the adjuster freezes at the point it was at before I tried to adjust it. As in, it really hasn't gone in past where it already was. (I know, it does not make sense)
I got the new cable that I don't really think will help, but first things first. The clevis on the clutch arm that captures the cable end was either pulled too far and stretched, or someone has mashed it with pliers over the cable end. I had to cut the old cable on top, and remove the lifter lever/spring assembly from the bike. I put it in a vise and bent it back into shape so the old cable end will come out through the slot and the new one can go in.
Putting the little spring back on was a treat. I'm on a break right now, I still need to hook the new cable end onto the lever and re-assemble everything so I can attempt to adjust it.
I'm riding to Anamosa Ia. to the national motorcycle museum saturday with a bunch of my younger plumber buddies and my kids friends. We want to see it before it closes in Sept.