Building a small shop - opinions?

[Track T 2411]

I'm at least 2 years away from being able to build a real garage, but my 8x8 foot shed just isn't going to cut it for too much longer. I'm toying with the idea of building a 12 x 12 foot shop that I can later attach to the garage, but I'm not that up on construction techniques. So, I thought I'd run a few ideas past the 'collective' to see if they are viable.

The location of the shed pretty much has to be on the future site of the garage, which will require a lot of fill (for the garage, but not the shed). Instead of pouring a concrete pad for the shed and have it buried under the garage later, I'm thinking of building a 12 x 12 deck with a plywood floor and building the shop on top. I have a pile of old retaining wall block that could be used as a base, with the deck frame sitting on top. I would just sink 4 posts as anchors on the corners. I could even insulate this area then. Opinions?

I'm also not sure what the roof pitch should be, and if I should do a separate ceiling. I plan on 8 foot walls, and a 4 foot door opening. I do plan on insulating it, but not sure about the heat source yet.

Electrical supply is going to be a hurdle, as my home only has a 100 amp box. Right now I simply use a high quality extention cord to power a couple of 4 foot florescent fixtures and the random power tool. I'm thinking I will wire for future curcuits, and just make do. I don't think I'll be able to swing an upgrade to the home service at this time. I can do the physical labor, but I don't have the proper knowledge to change out the box.

Any thoughts, opinions, (volunteers, lol), or suggestions on where I might get more info would be greatly appreciated!

[wog]

http://garagejournal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=7

[robin1731]

http://garagejournal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=7

I'm on that forum too. A lot of good info to be found.

[rcmatt007]

I have been planning a 12x12 "cabin" in the back for the grandkids, so basically, much the same.

12x12 is too big for only four corners unless you really want to buy big floor joists and really beef up the side stringers. Unless, of course, you want to go bouncy bouncy and sag.

I would do it this way. Place a Pier/post in each corner and one in the middle of each side *--------*---------* (6 feet) I would pour a concrete pad for the posts so they do not settle.

I would also do the same down the center. so, in effect, you have 2 6' x 12' sections. Run a 2x8 down each side and you could do one 2 x 8 down the center, but I would do 2. Then using joist hangers do 2 x 6 joists on 16" centers. This way your joists are only spanning a little less than 6'.

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Personally, I would just do a simple roof with a 4/12 pitch. East to get on and work on and not fall off. It is easy to make simple roof trusses. this youtube is a little more elaborate, but gives you the basics for setting up your simple jig


My father was a builder, so I grew up around it, and in CA with strict codes. I have also thought, if your going to build an outhouse, make it of brick! The biggest mistake I see around building is not making things sturdy enough or following basic rules. Or, the local guy who built several of the houses around us who pushed over fill, laid a pad, built houses..... and the owners are all now having to pay to have their foundations fixed and supported. I did NOT have him build our house.

[rcmatt007]

don't forget to check your local building codes. you may need a permit. You do not want the city/county telling you to tear it down, or fine you and demand back taxes. When I lived in Gresham OR (for example only), the code was no permit needed if equal or less than 10 x 10 and 10 feet high

[Whiskerfish]

84 Lumber sells some really nice inexpensive shed kits. I built a 12 x 16 over weekend about 15 years ago. Cost was about 800 back then. Comes with everything except the paint. The pre-built truss's make life easier, might at least take a look

[rcmatt007]

they have become a LOT more expensive, but so have all the materials for DIY. you will still need to build a support structure for a kit. probably a wash on the costs, and yes, pre built trusses are already done for you.

[robin1731]

Roof pitch, you are in Wisconsin, that means snow. I don't know the numbers but I would want it fairly steep. If insulating I would add a ceiling. Make sure you have ventilation in the "attic". Electrical may or may not need a permit. Like rcmatt suggest check local laws for that.
Heat source depends. Electric will require good wiring. You'll want 240v for a good heater. Even that small of an area. But you can do it with a small heater. One that doesn't take up much space. I use electric in my 20' x 20' and the heater is only about 1' x 1' x 1'. I keep it at 60 degrees all winter. Ventless heaters (propane/natural gas) work but put out a lot of moisture. Wood is a lot of work and takes up space and is dirty. A lot depends on how warm you want it and if you keep it warm all the time too.

[bladredhead]

if the temporary shed is going where the garage will eventually be, i would do the electrical ONCE. my plan of course depends on what the Codes allow, but doing the electrical properly will mitigate the cost over time since you'll probably only need to move the temp box to a new wall on the garage or something comparatively simple compared to trenching for the wires, getting the utility provider to upgrade whatever they need to upgrade etc etc.

here's a crazy idea... why not look into a shipping container? placed cleverly, you eventually incorporate it into the design of your future design as a back wall, structural support of something

http://garagejournal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=7

this website is dangerous for my retirement account. the harbor freight pass/fail thread is super handy though.

[rcmatt007]

there is a guy near us whose house burned down.... I now see a shipping container with dirt slopping to the top and one opening (away from the road). My guess is they are living in there, but this is in the country in Oklahoma, and just a wee-bit redneck! I hadn't thought about the electrical service, but paying once is better than paying twice. Even here, if I ran a line off the main meter, or changed the main box, I would have to have licensed electrician do it, because the utility wouldn't let me touch it.

my future plan is a detached garage, which will tie into the main meter. I am hoping when I do it I can find an electrician who will do the tie from the meter and install the box in the garage, and I will do the rest of the wiring.

[Track T 2411]

Thanks very much for the responses so far! I love the garage journal link, I'll have to delve into that more fully.

I have been planning a 12x12 "cabin" in the back for the grandkids, so basically, much the same.

12x12 is too big for only four corners unless you really want to buy big floor joists and really beef up the side stringers. Unless, of course, you want to go bouncy bouncy and sag.

I would do it this way. Place a Pier/post in each corner and one in the middle of each side *--------*---------* (6 feet) I would pour a concrete pad for the posts so they do not settle.

I would also do the same down the center. so, in effect, you have 2 6' x 12' sections. Run a 2x8 down each side and you could do one 2 x 8 down the center, but I would do 2. Then using joist hangers do 2 x 6 joists on 16" centers. This way your joists are only spanning a little less than 6'.

I understand what you're saying here, Rodger, and that's kind of what I'm trying to avoid... Maybe I should re-word my thoughts on the floor... I have enough concrete block to make a 12 x 12 'pad' that the floor joists would actually rest on. The four corner posts would be anchors rather than supports. This would: A) Allow me to use less expensive joists, B) Keep the overall height low enough to qualify as a 'shed' (I hate Homeowners Associations!), and C) Keep the floor from being nothing more than a slab of ice in the winter (one of the problems with my existing shed...).

[bladredhead]

there is a guy near us whose house burned down.... I now see a shipping container with dirt slopping to the top and one opening (away from the road). My guess is they are living in there, but this is in the country in Oklahoma, and just a wee-bit redneck! I hadn't thought about the electrical service, but paying once is better than paying twice. Even here, if I ran a line off the main meter, or changed the main box, I would have to have licensed electrician do it, because the utility wouldn't let me touch it.

my future plan is a detached garage, which will tie into the main meter. I am hoping when I do it I can find an electrician who will do the tie from the meter and install the box in the garage, and I will do the rest of the wiring.

the shipping container idea has been used all across the spectrum, from podunk redneck to million+ dollar showcase homes. the closer you stay to the redneck end of the spectrum the better the economics work out though!

i'm stuck in a condominium with a maxed out electrical service and little chance of an upgrade. no 220v tools or toys for me since the only 220v circuit is dedicated to the laundry and kitchen. the risk of temporarily borrowing it for garage duty isn't worth it.... thus electrical service is the First Thing i think about! it's also a sill i'll happily pay to have done properly. too many ways to do it wrong for me. know thyself or something

[Track T 2411]

I'd never get away with the shipping container... I can't have an auto sit anywhere for more than a week without one of the 'snoopy' neighbors complaining. Homeowners' Associations!

[scootsx2]

I'd never get away with the shipping container... I can't have an auto sit anywhere for more than a week without one of the 'snoopy' neighbors complaining. Homeowners' Associations!

Your HOA may have something to say about the new shed as well.

[Sagebrush]

Save your money and build the garage.