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Free Rocker Shaft Fix (new version)
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- Old Fogey
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Free Rocker Shaft Fix (new version)
The post currently in Shop Talk that I did on the rocker shaft change-over was a bit, well, not so much misleading as inadequate. It caused a lot of head scratching, but in my defence I was a bit new to posting technical stuff and it's very easy to miss out important things when YOU know how but are not used to showing others.
So here's a new version. This time hopefully I'll get it a bit more understandable. Admin, feel free to change the old one in Shop Talk for this if you think it's better.
First off, let's understand why we are doing this.
Here is a pic of a very worn shaft:
Due to the pressure from the valve springs and the cam, the rockers wear each of the shafts on the under side. Now, normally when a part is worn like this, the only recourse is to replace it. But here we are lucky. Because both the shafts are identical and because of the way the rockers are arranged, the shafts can be swopped one for the other so that the rockers will ride on fresh metal. You can see the arrangement here:
I had a bit of a surprise with the head I was doing this on. One of a pair that came in a job lot of parts, in a disgusting mess.
when I cleaned it down for the photos I found that someone had already done this modification! But done it wrong!
Check out the oil holes in the shaft. These are supposed to point down to spray the camshaft lobes.
(I changed them round and removed the cam carrier for this pic so that you can see where they are supposed to be)
OK, back to where we were.
Hopefully, if you have the heads off you removed them with the cam in such a position that the rockers were all nearly free ie. with all the cam lobes pointing in towards the head.
Back off the tappet adjusters until there is no spring pressure on any of the rockers.
I like to disturb things as little as possible (although these heads will be getting totally stripped eventually due to their condition) but if you leave the cam carrier on the head after removing the six 12mm bolts, the shafts will only come out of the carrier towards the rear of the head. As these heads were already off I took off the pulley and rear timing case cover for the next step.
Further on I will show you how to do the next step on a head that is on a running engine, without taking anything else such as pulleys, covers, timing belts etc off.
Gently tap the shafts out of the cam carrier using a drift. They are not normally a tight fit so once you have them started you can usually pull them out the rest of the way by hand.
Rockers and their springs will stay in place while you swap over the shafts
Now you can see from this that simply moving the inlet shaft down to replace the exhaust shaft and vice versa will result in the oil holes pointing up as in the previous picture.
So the shafts have to be turned end over end to rectify this.
Lube up the shafts and slide each one back into place, replace the six bolts and torque them down evenly. I don't have torque figures for these bolts but about 12 ft/lbs should be enough
If you have done the job right it should look like this:
All that remains now is to reset the tappets and fit the rocker cover back on.
To do this on a head that is still on the engine.
Follow the procedure as above but don't go removing cam belt, pulleys, covers, tack drive bolts or anything else.
Since there is nothing to get a hold on to pull the shafts out and you can't get to punch them from the front you need to use something with a right angle on it to get the shaft started. I simply used a pair of circlip pliers to give the shafts the initial push. Once they have moved out the back somewhat, you can get hold of them and pull them the rest of the way.
I mocked up the head as if it were still on an engine:
Use your right angle implement (whatever) to get the shafts started:
No problem with getting them past the fuel pump/tach drive:
So now proceed as above. You should be able to do each side from start to finish in 15 minutes unless you hit something unforseen.
So here's a new version. This time hopefully I'll get it a bit more understandable. Admin, feel free to change the old one in Shop Talk for this if you think it's better.
First off, let's understand why we are doing this.
Here is a pic of a very worn shaft:
Due to the pressure from the valve springs and the cam, the rockers wear each of the shafts on the under side. Now, normally when a part is worn like this, the only recourse is to replace it. But here we are lucky. Because both the shafts are identical and because of the way the rockers are arranged, the shafts can be swopped one for the other so that the rockers will ride on fresh metal. You can see the arrangement here:
I had a bit of a surprise with the head I was doing this on. One of a pair that came in a job lot of parts, in a disgusting mess.
when I cleaned it down for the photos I found that someone had already done this modification! But done it wrong!
Check out the oil holes in the shaft. These are supposed to point down to spray the camshaft lobes.
(I changed them round and removed the cam carrier for this pic so that you can see where they are supposed to be)
OK, back to where we were.
Hopefully, if you have the heads off you removed them with the cam in such a position that the rockers were all nearly free ie. with all the cam lobes pointing in towards the head.
Back off the tappet adjusters until there is no spring pressure on any of the rockers.
I like to disturb things as little as possible (although these heads will be getting totally stripped eventually due to their condition) but if you leave the cam carrier on the head after removing the six 12mm bolts, the shafts will only come out of the carrier towards the rear of the head. As these heads were already off I took off the pulley and rear timing case cover for the next step.
Further on I will show you how to do the next step on a head that is on a running engine, without taking anything else such as pulleys, covers, timing belts etc off.
Gently tap the shafts out of the cam carrier using a drift. They are not normally a tight fit so once you have them started you can usually pull them out the rest of the way by hand.
Rockers and their springs will stay in place while you swap over the shafts
Now you can see from this that simply moving the inlet shaft down to replace the exhaust shaft and vice versa will result in the oil holes pointing up as in the previous picture.
So the shafts have to be turned end over end to rectify this.
Lube up the shafts and slide each one back into place, replace the six bolts and torque them down evenly. I don't have torque figures for these bolts but about 12 ft/lbs should be enough
If you have done the job right it should look like this:
All that remains now is to reset the tappets and fit the rocker cover back on.
To do this on a head that is still on the engine.
Follow the procedure as above but don't go removing cam belt, pulleys, covers, tack drive bolts or anything else.
Since there is nothing to get a hold on to pull the shafts out and you can't get to punch them from the front you need to use something with a right angle on it to get the shaft started. I simply used a pair of circlip pliers to give the shafts the initial push. Once they have moved out the back somewhat, you can get hold of them and pull them the rest of the way.
I mocked up the head as if it were still on an engine:
Use your right angle implement (whatever) to get the shafts started:
No problem with getting them past the fuel pump/tach drive:
So now proceed as above. You should be able to do each side from start to finish in 15 minutes unless you hit something unforseen.
"Impossible Is Just a Level of Difficulty!..."
If I'd wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better! (Johann Cruyff)
I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous!
If I'd wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better! (Johann Cruyff)
I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous!
- ericheath
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Re: Free Rocker Shaft Fix (new version)
Nice work again. We sure appreciate your input here. Hope to try this later this year.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
- robin1731
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Re: Free Rocker Shaft Fix (new version)
That shows it exactly. Now the guy that was all screwed up on the other thread knows more too.
(that guy would be me)
(that guy would be me)
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
- Whiskerfish
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Re: Free Rocker Shaft Fix (new version)
Very good
Like to give this a day or two here and then move it. John if I forget give me a nudge in a couple days please.
Like to give this a day or two here and then move it. John if I forget give me a nudge in a couple days please.
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
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2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1984 GL1200 Standard
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
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Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
"Yea I do dance awkwardly, and I am having more fun than you" Taylor Swift
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1984 GL1200 Standard
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
- lcallison
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Re: Free Rocker Shaft Fix (new version)
Thank you for the excellent article. I'll be doing this on my 76 shortly. Maybe it'll be the fix for that noisy beast.
Larry
84 GL1200A
79 GL1000
84 GL1200A
79 GL1000
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Re: Free Rocker Shaft Fix (new version)
Good job John, even I can understand it
Dean Spalding
Raleigh, NC
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Raleigh, NC
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
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Re: Free Rocker Shaft Fix (new version)
excellent how to! Good work
-Rodger-
all it takes for evil to prosper is the want of a few good men to do nothing-Edmund Burke
The question is not how much time do you have, it is what you do with the time that you have Gandalf
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all it takes for evil to prosper is the want of a few good men to do nothing-Edmund Burke
The question is not how much time do you have, it is what you do with the time that you have Gandalf
"One of the greatest dignities of humankind is that each successive generation is invested in the welfare of each new generation." Fred Rodgers
"it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert" ancient saying
78 constantly modified/customized since 1978, BOTM June 2015 de-evolving this very moment viewtopic.php?f=30&t=65511
76 Ltd "cookies bike" ALMOST DONE
79 project, finished, FOR SALE
'86 1200 (Beth's)(FOR SALE) with motorvation sidecar (sidecar sold) , July 2017 BOTM
'17 HD Road king and 08 HD Heritage softail (Beth's) (FOR SALE). I guess you can say we have MBS
- rogue1000
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Re: Free Rocker Shaft Fix (new version)
Excellent how to, John, thanks...The symtoms that would lead one to suspect he needed to do this fix would be excessive noise? Maybe coupled with high milage?
Brian Crow
1977 gl1000, with California sidecar
"KBO"!! Keep bungling on! Winston Churchill
"Bound is boatless man"
1977 gl1000, with California sidecar
"KBO"!! Keep bungling on! Winston Churchill
"Bound is boatless man"
- Old Fogey
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Re: Free Rocker Shaft Fix (new version)
Just noise really Brian. The worse the wear the lower the oil pressure under the rockers as it can bleed out too fast, causing more wear. I guess in extreme cases the pressure throughout the engine would drop because of it since the oil will take the path of least resistance.
The the top end will get over oiled, the crank bearings will be starved......
The extra oil will carry the bits of metal worn off the shafts and the rockers down to jam the oil pump....
The shafts will break in two and the rockers will punch holes in the covers and in your legs.........aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Paranoid? Moi?
The the top end will get over oiled, the crank bearings will be starved......
The extra oil will carry the bits of metal worn off the shafts and the rockers down to jam the oil pump....
The shafts will break in two and the rockers will punch holes in the covers and in your legs.........aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Paranoid? Moi?
"Impossible Is Just a Level of Difficulty!..."
If I'd wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better! (Johann Cruyff)
I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous!
If I'd wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better! (Johann Cruyff)
I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous!
- 05c50
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Re: Free Rocker Shaft Fix (new version)
Very nice "how to", John. The pictures are excellent, and even with your accent, I could understand everthing you said. I was just wondering about the wear on the inside of the rockers. Have you ever seen rockers worn to point that they were unusable?
............Paul
............Paul
I prefer to ride my wing naked,thank you
My wife asked me "How many bikes does one man need?" My answer "Uhhh.just one more"
75 Goldwing
78 Goldwing
77 CB750a
77 CB550f
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My wife asked me "How many bikes does one man need?" My answer "Uhhh.just one more"
75 Goldwing
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77 CB550f
80 CB650c
05 Boule C50
- Old Fogey
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Re: Free Rocker Shaft Fix (new version)
The simple answer to that is the only ones I've had that would not be used again are the ones in the article! Reason; they had already been turned and then used in an engine with severe oiling problems (the crank shells were worn though to the copper!).
The vast majority of these heads will never have had the shafts removed, so a quick turn around and you would be good to go for another 30 years!
The vast majority of these heads will never have had the shafts removed, so a quick turn around and you would be good to go for another 30 years!
"Impossible Is Just a Level of Difficulty!..."
If I'd wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better! (Johann Cruyff)
I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous!
If I'd wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better! (Johann Cruyff)
I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous!
- MSGT-R
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Re: Free Rocker Shaft Fix (new version)
Dude, we really must get you back on your meds!Old Fogey wrote:The the top end will get over oiled, the crank bearings will be starved......
The extra oil will carry the bits of metal worn off the shafts and the rockers down to jam the oil pump....
The shafts will break in two and the rockers will punch holes in the covers and in your legs.........aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Paranoid? Moi?
81 Interstate: gone but never forgotten.
13 F6B
NGW Cartel
13 F6B
NGW Cartel
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Re: Free Rocker Shaft Fix (new version)
MSGT-R wrote:Dude, we really must get you back on your meds!Old Fogey wrote:The the top end will get over oiled, the crank bearings will be starved......
The extra oil will carry the bits of metal worn off the shafts and the rockers down to jam the oil pump....
The shafts will break in two and the rockers will punch holes in the covers and in your legs.........aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Paranoid? Moi?
How do we know this isn't him on his meds? I wonder what he'd be like off of them.
Could this be something I might want to look at doing on my 81? I think the odo says about 65,000 miles on it and I'd suspect this hasn't been done. I've got time before my parts arrive. I suspect it wouldn't hurt to switch these around.
"The only way to earn bragging rights, is to do shit worth bragging about!!" -- ME
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"There is no such thing as reality, there is only perception." --unknown
R.I.P. 1981 GL1100
riding in the meantime 2004 zx-10r (friends bike)
hoping to find, anything more comfortable than the rocket.
"Make it go before show, you can't drive pretty!" --My brother
"There is no such thing as reality, there is only perception." --unknown
R.I.P. 1981 GL1100
riding in the meantime 2004 zx-10r (friends bike)
hoping to find, anything more comfortable than the rocket.
- Anim8or Earl
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Re: Free Rocker Shaft Fix (new version)
Thanks Old Fogey, that was very easy to follow.
-
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Re: Free Rocker Shaft Fix (new version)
Hi John
Would this be a good thing to do on any GL that's done 50,000 miles? Or only if it looks necessary after examining the parts? Is wear usually visible?
Would this be a good thing to do on any GL that's done 50,000 miles? Or only if it looks necessary after examining the parts? Is wear usually visible?
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